Protecting our Mods.

[BreadedChickenKnife]

Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas can be modded. These two games have a modding community.

 

I want others to participate in testing a new tool I am planning.

 

First, I will cover the extent to which this tool can be applied. The need for this tool in 1 to 1 ,or 1 to a select many, is assumed to be for them only to test.

 

1 to 1 Transfer.

1 to a Limited Many.

1 to The entire public.

 

Before I get into the technical background of how this would operate, I want to summarize when we could of benefited from protection.

 

An entity acquires your mod and violates your terms by doing one of the following, and then redistributes your mod.

1. Erasing your name.

2. Erasing your name and replacing it with theirs.

3. Leaving your name in, and appending theirs and simply re-distributing .

4 . Editing your mod to do less or more without your consent.

5. They redistribute their version(s) of your mod with a naming conflict which in turn confuses the community.

6. Because of their ignorance or malicious goals, they create, a ghastly unprofessional or faulty spin-off, which is pretty likely attributable to something ranging from 1 to 5.

 

 

Once again, before I get into the technical background, I want you to focus on what can be done versus what has worked for you in the past.

 

The following is a piece of Kai Hohiro's advice which was recently given in his interview.

 

“...Modding is not a job, it won’t make you famous or wealthy, but it can bring you and many, many other people a lot of joy and you will make new friends along the way.”

 

It is quite clear that is a perspective he is offering others to consider, so that they can be more humble. I

 

How about this...

 

Modding actually can land you a job. This is especially the case if your popularity catches the eye of someone who could get you employed. The chain of events varies, but what leads to the completion of your mod is pure effort.

 

If you make it a point that you mod partially to gain new friends, then wealth is an unnecessary concern to begin with. We socialize, but embracing socialism in hopes to become better modders is vain. Part of why you may not get a job is relying on others.

 

That said, please do not make the mistake of opposing my idea. Modders should be allowed to keep their projects playable and protected from people who have no conception of courtesy.

 

If you are the type of person who enjoys the openness of unprotected mods, then power to you! But I don't care for free-loaders. Direct the curious noobs to GECK wiki or the numerous tutorials available in the community sites. Tell them to open up the scripts that came with the vanilla game. Or hand them your scripts directly because you are so care-free... Or is it, your scripts are in too many ways, pure unauthorized rips of other people's mods?

 

If you want to argue that no one has an original script, then you surely don't need to see ours. Do it yourself.

 

The people who reserve the right to confiscate the modding related work of others, are not you. And I will not be treated as if I am guilty before the proper authorities make a direct request for me to hand-over my work.

 

NOW, before you start quoting to me: contracts, licenses, GECK agreements..

 

THE GENIUS PLAN

The creator of his/her own mod, is responsible for blocking anyone's ability to monitor their computer as their plugin is protected. If someone does spy on the protector, it does not defeat the purpose of anything but the reliability of that single instance.

 

After completion, the file will be ready to be passed out. Whoever wants to use the protected file will need a program . A key which was inserted into the protected file, is then read and used to translate the data for the game to load.

 

Say someone were to capture or intercept the data as it was passed to the game so to export an unprotected edition of the data, well then, they are not a noob.

 

Luckily, every plugin would be uniquely protected. Each act of protection will generate a new result even if we are talking about the same file(unprotected mod). Even better is that the hacker would have to crack their target manually, and differently each time.

[Dark0ne]

When you say "our mods" I see you have no mods to your name and only registered 30 minutes ago. People might take your post more seriously if you posted under your actual alias/account, explained what issues have led you to take such extreme measures to protect your mods and how you propose others should help you test this tool (that I'm assuming, from your wording, you haven't developed yet?).

[davidlallen]

If I understand your long post correctly, you propose to encrypt mod files. For each person who wants to download, you will generate a uniquely encrypted version and give that person a key. Once they use the key, they will have an unencrypted version they can use to play the game. What prevents one of these people from uploading the unencrypted version?

[BreadedChickenKnife]

When you say "our mods" I see you have no mods to your name and only registered 30 minutes ago. People might take your post more seriously if you posted under your actual alias/account, explained what issues have led you to take such extreme measures to protect your mods and how you propose others should help you test this tool (that I'm assuming, from your wording, you haven't developed yet?).

 

I am an Experimental Modder. I have a lot of experience with working my concepts into rough representations. For-whatever reason, not many people are into programming. I think in respect to the Script Extender and the third-party-plugin support they provide, there is much untapped potential. I am willing to go as far as needed to make something work. I think many know the history of Reverse Engineers. I have attempted Reverse Engineering and it fascinate me. I have programmed long enough to pull something off like I described in my OP.

 

I don't have an alternative active account. It is true I made this account to first post about protecting plugins. I typed everything in a word processor first if you are wondering how such a large post was made so quickly.

 

If the people on the Nexus forums are to participate, then by your rule: Where would I be allowed to upload the test file(s)? Off-site links are probably discouraged, especially links to download sites.

 

For testing I would upload the protected file and the program which can pass the data onto the game in a valid context. After that, I will see if others can protect their mods and pass them to their friends etc.

 

@davidallen

What prevents one of these people from uploading the unencrypted version?

 

The unencrypted version would be put directly into memory of the game process when it calls for that plugin. The trick is to prevent people from intercepting that data and dumping it to their hard-disk. That task alone isn't quite noobie-friendly. As I hinted, the steps to actually dump the data won't be the same. The objective being no one can walk away with a tutorial or a program that can allow others to do the same thing to different plugin.

Edited March 17, 2011 by BreadedChickenKnife

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Sounds like a lot of hassle for a problem that really isn't that bad. Good luck though. I'm sure Kendo will love it :laugh:

[baduk]

I think it is a terrible idea.

 

I understand that any time some company can pop up and start bundling and selling our mods and it would be difficult for the creators to do much about it.

Maybe by giving them bad press it would limit the scope of their operations.

 

But your suggestion is just bad. IT will limit the enjoyment of people using mods, increasing strain on hardware.

It will limit the innovation of mod authors as well. And make it hard for new modders to learn how to do what they imagine.

 

I am a new modder and I learned so much from the community. I have done almost no scripting work but I think that technical creation and artistic creation belong in different categories.

If i have technique to do something I want to let others know about it and help them do the same.

When I need to study something I examine mostly vanilla resources but I have also examined modded resources to learn from those and without access to that information i would not have learned the things i have.

 

It will also create unwanted resentment from the people who we would like to enjoy our mods. There will be groups dedicated to circumventing our draconian methods and the entire community will be poorer for it.

[BreadedChickenKnife]

I think it is a terrible idea.

 

I understand that any time some company can pop up and start bundling and selling our mods and it would be difficult for the creators to do much about it.

Maybe by giving them bad press it would limit the scope of their operations.

 

But your suggestion is just bad. IT will limit the enjoyment of people using mods, increasing strain on hardware.

It will limit the innovation of mod authors as well. And make it hard for new modders to learn how to do what they imagine.

 

I am a new modder and I learned so much from the community. I have done almost no scripting work but I think that technical creation and artistic creation belong in different categories.

If i have technique to do something I want to let others know about it and help them do the same.

When I need to study something I examine mostly vanilla resources but I have also examined modded resources to learn from those and without access to that information i would not have learned the things i have.

 

It will also create unwanted resentment from the people who we would like to enjoy our mods. There will be groups dedicated to circumventing our draconian methods and the entire community will be poorer for it.

 

Don't be that quick to invent lies. My tool does not suggest there will be a strain on your hardware. It is prejudice for you to suggest that has to be the case.

 

The tool is not going to be one of those annoying anti-cheat softwares that most would label a malware. Resource-wise, if you can't bare the tiny and almost singular use of your processing power and memory at startup of my tool, you need to exit this conversation immediately and jack-hammer your five dollar netbook.

 

 

For now I am only discussing the possibility of our ESP being protected. That includes Scripts and the basic modifications to the game. I bet you have examined other's mods. The only difference a tool like mine makes, is whose mod you can open up and learn from. If you can't be bothered to message the creator for an unprotected version, then so be it. Don't in turn, tell us that I and everyone else have to pass up on protecting our mods.

 

It will also create unwanted resentment from the people who we would like to enjoy our mods. There will be groups dedicated to circumventing our draconian methods and the entire community will be poorer for it.

There you have it. Even you know people will do anything to access others' mods . You know, like stirring up resentment.

 

Did anyone see this skit in the HOUSE MD Episodes?

If someone handed you a gun and you were burning at the stake, wouldn't you use it to kill yourself rather than prefer to burn slowly?

Rational answer: I would turn the gun on them and demand to be taking down.

 

This does not mean he will be taking down, but now there is at least some chance he can survive .

 

I don't doubt you are a good guy baduk, but you have to stop this stock-holm syndrome bull.

Edited March 17, 2011 by BreadedChickenKnife

[cambragol]

Essentially you are talking about creating DRM for mods? This strikes me as a hideous idea. In fact it is so heinous as to seem slightly deranged, which begs the question of whether or not this is just an elaborate troll? In any case, nothing will or should come of it, and I would hope that the majority of modders, and users, would be opposed to your idea, whether or not you advise them that it is a mistake to oppose you.

 

All that being said, you are free to try it and carry forth with your plan. Yet, you will likely have to do that by building upon the thousands of ideas and inventions that have brought you to the point of even being able to consider this idea.

[BreadedChickenKnife]

Essentially you are talking about creating DRM for mods? This strikes me as a hideous idea. In fact it is so heinous as to seem slightly deranged, which begs the question of whether or not this is just an elaborate troll? In any case, nothing will or should come of it, and I would hope that the majority of modders, and users, would be opposed to your idea, whether or not you advise them that it is a mistake to oppose you.

 

All that being said, you are free to try it and carry forth with your plan. Yet, you will likely have to do that by building upon the thousands of ideas and inventions that have brought you to the point of even being able to consider this idea.

 

Are you for real? you ignored my post and still managed to act like what I expect to encounter.

 

It is not forced DRM. DRM has bad protocol associated with it. Also you aren't entitled to these mods . Bethesda is , and the mod creator simply is doing something that you need to respect or simply walk away. But no one can actually rebel against a tool that is optional and could only be rejected out of fear by stubborn and misinformed people.

 

I am the informant . We will all agree to test the tool quite a bit before we expect others to use our protected mods on a daily basis.

 

edit: Again, people can trade the unprotected mod to their friend. Learn how you want. People who need to look at other's scripts, do so to see how a particular effect was achieved. Learn to script first.

Edited March 17, 2011 by BreadedChickenKnife

[johnnatan]

Just avoid to post them in public servers if you dont want your MOD to be made public and used by the public. Easy solution for your "HUGE" problem!