Fallout 4 scepticism...

[jet4571]

@ThrottleKitty, it was those screenshots I was referring to, did they try anything besides post a screenshot?

 

And why isn't quote working!

 

@WursWaldo, by that logic we have all been pirating since the first program was made to extract from a .bsa and everything we do outside the CK is illegal. And bringing up paid mods is just fear mongering at this point.

Edited November 8, 2015 by jet4571

[WursWaldo]

Yes, looking at the current situation realistically is fear mongering. Opposed to ignoring what is happening, which is what some people here are doing. Read the title of the thread if you're confused.

[throttlekitty]

 

If (notice that I said IF) BA2 is the new archive format no one can open it unless they have the proper software. Effectively it is a DRM and circumventing it means cracking the game. That makes you a pirate who violates the license of the Bethesda game software. This is an effective means of controlling modding since there is no access to the archives unless you use Bethesda made or approved software. This is actually a very smart business move if Bethesda intends to monetize mods for console. Daz/Poser does something similar by controlling the runtimes with their software. The difference is Daz/Poser is honest with their intent, whereas Bethesda intends to blindside an unsuspecting modding community.

 

You were doing pretty well up until this paragraph. BSA was also a proprietary format that you could not operate without custom software, same with ESM/ESP NIF, TRI, EGM files contained within. The community has written tools to work with these files.

 

It's not DRM, it's simply file formatting, that's how computers work. In your first paragraph you reason that the move to 64 bit being a likely reason for the change, then call it DRM? Surely you're a troll.

 

@jet4571, no clue, sorry.

Edited November 8, 2015 by throttlekitty

[JianXintou]

Have you ever used ENB? You probably know this is a tool that you inject and finetune it to get eyecandy but it hardly can do any more? Have you played any newest games like on Frostbite 3, UE4 or CryEngine3? Have you been paying attention on how interactions between player and enviroment works? How fluid they are?

I'm well aware of what an ENB is and what it does, I just don't see how that point is in any way relevant to the point you were trying to make regarding animations and somesuch. Yeah, no s*** ENBs and other visual effects don't make animations look good. But whether or not they do is again - not an objective criteria. Just like whether or not the effects applied by an ENB are "aesthetic" or not. Unless you gan give me a good, objective definition of "fluid animations" I can't really take that as anything else than "I don't like X". Which is fine, just not a point to make a discussion about.

 

 

 

That WAS a selling point, definitely, for me and many other ppl. It isn't now though, but probably should be. And I'm afraid Beth never held a monopoly over sandbox games, even Gothic series are openworld and not any less popular than TES.

When was Gothic ever as popular as Beth games? Gothic also had some of the most incoherent and terrible dialogue I've ever seen in any game. Who says that? Have you done any polls?

 

 

Making a point if you haven't played most openworld games is gonna be difficult for me. The ones I listed have no hubs and those are pretty much pure sandbox games one can find. I don't see a single reason how Mass Effect can be fit in here tbh...

I never said I didn't play most open world games, I said I didn't play GTA V specifically. I played Far Cry 3 (which you could give one of the Skyrim criticisms: terrible one-dimensional characters, redundant choices, inauthentic characters, borderline racist tropes) and Far Cry 4 (better characters, still tropey - insignificant story) and I'd honestly not view these games as much more an RPG than any Fallout game - you could make the same argument here that people turn against Fallout - it's just a shooter with RPG elements. I've also played Fable and the limitations of your choices (particularly in later games) got pretty slim. The latest Saints Row is no less "linear" than any Fallout game, it has a bunch of "activities" and "challenges like AC but if you take that away there's not much else interesting going in terms of interaction with the world if you ask me. AC also has one of the most repetetive gameplay concepts of any game ever. How Mass Effects gets in there? If we're going to compare FO4 to ME why not compare other games to ME? I mean a limited scope of choices and their relevance (Far Cry), one-dimensional morality concepts (Fable), borderline offensive tropes (Far Cry) and I could go on and write you an essay about that.

 

Point being, that comparison is lopsided.

 

 

 

No, not exactly, I said objectively they aren't linear, but in comparison they are.

That is a paradox. At least the way you phrased it, if you're claiming they are linear in comaparison you're still claiming an objective standard. We can talk about them having more or less "linear elements" within that context but again - that is more about subjective interpretations and standards than it is about anything gneeral.

 

 

 

Regarding RPGs, those are pretty common knowledge, I'd say classics, IE games, old (true) Fallouts, Planescape, Arcanum and so on. Those games set a standard to an RPG very clearly, if you haven't played any of them, I highly recommend, you'll have incredible fun, if you're truly in good RPGs of course.

"Common knowledge" is not really an argument, that's an appeal to the masses (i.e. a logical fallacy) Yes, they set a standard in their time. So what? Standards change all the time and who says that any standard is universal?

 

Also, I have played these games - I just vastly disagree with your pseudo-objective assessment of their implication.

Edited November 8, 2015 by JianXintou

[RoyBatterian]

I don't give a crap who you are, you're just a troll and full of it.

 

If you don't mod for games, and not for free, then you are on the wrong site. Don't go away mad, just go away.

 

ba2 is just another archive of game assets which is pre-indexed for fast asset retrieval and compressed like .pak, .bsa, and whatever other formats have been used since the early 90's.

[WursWaldo]

(notice that I said IF) I guess that didn't get noticed. :laugh: I also said ba2 was 'effectively' a DRM. I didn't say it was in fact one.

Troll? Sure, whatever you say. If looking at some of the harsher realities of what FO4 modding might be and stating my opinions here makes me a troll than so be it. I thought I was being skeptical, like the thread title says. :tongue:

[JimboUK]

IBTimes broke the review embargo but have since taken the review down, a cached version isn't hard to find. Some stuff from it....

 

 

 

The game gets a solid "Meh".

He complains about it being slow which is fine by me, I loved Morrowind for that very reason.

 

He says the game is hard, again something I don't mind.

 

He describes NPCs as dull and boring, it's a Bethesda game so I wasn't expecting any different and it's surely a step up from FO3's weirdo's.

 

He says there are a ton of things to do but little reason to do them.

 

The player isn't given a reason to care about what's going on, normally I'd dismiss this as being purely subjective but this was one of my main problems with Skyrim.

 

Fallout fans will love it but there's little to bring anyone new to the franchise.

 

It wasn't a bad review, but it wasn't a good one either, if it's accurate then it's what I was expecting.

 

 

[JianXintou]

Idk, this sounds like nothing new to me. Plus I don't agree with a lot of criticisms towards Skyrim. I enjoyed that game more than Oblivion by a long shot. I mean the MQ will probably be negligible but when was that not the case since Morrowind? I didn't even particularly care for the MQ of FNV.

Edited November 8, 2015 by JianXintou

[JimboUK]

It concludes that Fallout fans will like it which should be good enough for people here.

[JianXintou]

It concludes that Fallout fans will like it which should be good enough for people here.

Probably, I will >probably< like it, too. But I dislike making any judgements before I've actually tried it.