WursWaldo

Wars aren't wars because Democrats say they aren't. The American boots on the ground and their families think otherwise. If the U.S, went 'all out' with a legitimate campaign daesh could be pounded into submission in a weekend with B-52 strikes and mopped up within a year (or less) using antiquated WW2 tactics. Bomb the Hell out of them without warning, roll in a solid line of armor and infantry and kill anything with less than four legs. 'War crimes' and 'atrocities' be damned since the U.N. only applies those terms when it suits their purposes anyway. If they aren't worried about the systemic annihilation of Christians and enslaving women by Muslim daesh douches then they shouldn't be concerned when we vaporize the lot of them. THAT is what wins wars. Obama has taken it on himself to got to Japan and apologize for Nagasaki and Hiroshima. He's too stupid to realize the WW2 beach fronts of Omaha, Utah, Juno and Sword would be lost in the shadows of the American deaths on Japanese beaches named Ford, Chevy and Taxi Cab. That was the plan, a mass Normandy-style amphibious landing on the main island of Shikoku. Truman made the right the choice to nuke them and no one sees the Japanese apologizing for invading Manchuria, the Rape of Nanking, Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March or anything else they perpetrated during WW2. In fact according to the Japanese none of things took place, or they had a reason for doing them. Yeah, Obama, you apologize for nuking mass murderers who still think they were doing the right thing. Maybe you'd like to dig up Hitler and tell him you're sorry too? What you're getting ready to do with Japan is the same thing. My grandfather was in the Sudan Defense Force and he fought Mussolini's fascists and then he volunteered to fight Rommel's Afrika Korps with the British. My grandfather was an illiterate potter in a mud hut village and he took it upon himself to fight oppression and evil. There are people in the Middle East now willing to do the same against daesh. You don't tie their hands with politics. you fill their hands with weapons. Sorry for the rant. I have bad memories most here will never experience.

I think I'm too instilled into the console mentality of 'beating the game' to worry about what my character looks like. Honestly I spend about 5 minutes with sliders and what not and then click 'OK'. I care about the meat of a game so I guess that makes me a minority as far as character cosmetics go. For Bethesda games I always use mesh and texture replacers for both sexes since the stock ones are so bad. But for other games I don't install anything. For example, TW3 doesn't need mods at all to make the characters look good. Geralt is rugged/ugly/manly/handsome and Triss (my CGI girlfriend) is beautiful by default. No need to 'fix' anything. I don't have GTA or DOA modded either. But to be honest I do have Sims4 modded to make the Sims naked/better looking. The normal maps are terrible and I had to bake the meshes. Couldn't stop myself. :confused:

Yeah, good luck with that.

So people should be "corrected" for speaking their minds and voicing their concerns? They aren't breaking any rules or violating any laws yet the implication is they should somehow be punished. Sure, why not? :dry:

I've been reading threads on the Bethesda.net 'community' forums. I don't know if the delay caused any long term damage but right now the FO4 community seems really splintered; there and elsewhere. At Bethesda.net there is lots of name calling and hostility; mostly having to do with the game and CK EULAs, who really owns the content (modders or Bethesda), paid modding and all the other conflicts seen in this thread. Even worse the staff there is lacking in moderator skills and that isn't making the situation any better. I think the cause of the conflicts happening now was the CK being delayed for so long. People didn't have solid answers so they filled in the blanks with speculation and rumors and those took on a life of their own. FO4 is the worst Bethesda titled I've played and it isn't worth what is happening and pathetic things people are saying to one another.

Trump as President doesn't worry me in the least, but 8 more years of American Democrat Liberal BS scares the hell of of me.

For Bethesda games and others like Saint Row I play the black dude because I'm a black dude. For Mass Effect I played vanilla male Shepard because there's nothing wrong with his appearance, imo. Playing Geralt in The Witchers wasn't a stretch for me and I didn't mind playing the pasty white dude. To me, he fit in with the games' Medieval European motif. Same thing for Final Fantasy and Hitman. But for some reason I can't get into playing a female character. Probably because I don't identify with them. I'm not politically correct so I don't see the point in complaints I read from time to time about how 'games are centered on hetero white males'. That silliness doesn't matter to me. A spade is a spade (hey, that's me :happy: ) and that isn't something that needs to be 'fixed' in gaming. SJWs and 3rd wave fem-Nazis need to leave my games alone. :mad:

Just happy lie'n Ted is out of the running. I couldn't deal with his Southern preacher idiom for 8 years. And yes, Reaganite Republicans hate Trump. The thing is, modern politics are leaving them behind. Trump might have to do what Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and Reagan did to gain any traction; that's rebuild the party and and disenfranchise the established elite. I don't think that would be a bad thing. Softening the pointless rhetoric on topics like abortion could go a long way to bringing others closer to the party, and it would disarm that particular Liberal hot point. Not scuttling established entitlements like Social Security and Medicare would also go a long way. I consider myself a conservative but there are agendas held by old school Republicans that I do not agree with. I think core principles like a strong military and economic growth need to be held on to, but this is a new era and the world is leaving some Republicans in the last century.

If given the option I always play male. If given a race option I always play the black guy. :happy: That is one of the few things I like about Bethesda games; you can play whatever sex and race you want.

I'm going to leave this here for the people who called me an idiot, a troll and a doom-sayer because I wanted to discuss the FO4 licensing and monetized modding. Paid Bethesda mods are making a come back.

Trump should start promoting his rallies as Job Fairs. That would keep the Sanders supporters away. It's too bad the mainstream media (and Fox) doesn't look at YouTube videos. The whole 'Trump causes violence' argument would be put to rest, but that isn't what they want. There's a video on YouTube showing one of these 'peaceful ' Black Lives Matter protesters getting pepper sprayed after she punches a Trump supporter in the face. It's comedy gold. I can't post the link here because of the language the BLM girl used to antagonize the Trump supporters and the page comments 'telling it how it is'.The whole exchange was caught on a phone's camera; her screaming in this guy's face and using her body to push him back, him using the back of his hand to get her off of him, her screaming the victim narrative of "He touched me!", the crowd laughing at her, her face twisting in anger as she punches the guy, her getting sprayed and then staggering away after her mouth and nostrils were filled with pepper spray. Priceless. Oh yeah, the BLM protesters broke through the police barricades that separated the groups. They wanted an aggressive confrontation.

Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter; look at what they turn in to. 'Demanding change' today is a sideshow. The passion and drive of the Vietnam War protests has been replaced with angst and entitlement. There aren't 'movements' anymore, just circle-jerks and riots.

The FO4 EULA contains licencing for two or more pieces of software. LICENSE CONDITIONS (for the game), THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY (for an installer and/or editor or similar tools). They are seperate, but covered in the same license. It is obvious. You don’t have to be a lawyer to see it. I never said the FO4 game is an editor. I said the editor’s license is in the FO4 EULA. “If the Software makes available, as a separate downloadable installer, a level editor or other similar type tools” There it is in black and white.

I have never asserted FO4 is a game editor, only that the FO4 EULA has provison for an editor. Please quote where I said precisely that FO4 is an editor. I have maintained continuity throughout this discussion, going as far as to identify that the FO4 mods currently available were not made with an official Bethesda editor. I can't state that an editor doesn't exist and then claim FO4 is an editor. That's just silly. And I still think Reneer is wrong. I agree to disagree.

I disagree. I am fully aware the FO4 game is not an editor. I am also aware the verbiage for an editor is in fact in the EULA for the game itself. I have not implied the game is an editor, nor does the EULA imply the game is an editor. The section for the editor in the game's EULA is a separate clause and is clearly identified as such. It is not treated as a subsection of the game portion of the license. This is obvious. We can't conveniently ignore or remove an entire applicable clause simply because it conflicts with our notions or an after-the-fact TOS. Bethesda can remove it (and they probably will when the CK is released with its own EULA). All we can do is mull this lunacy over and try to figure out what they are up to; and make ourselves crazy in the process.

@ Reneer Okay, this is from the legal terms at https://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us So if the editor's EULA conflicts with the Bethesda.net TOS then the editor's license takes precedence. That means for right now the FO4 EULA that includes provisions for an editor is the standard. Agreed?

I disagree, but we'll see. :thumbsup:

No documentation, only uniformed opinion. Someone lays out some hard truths and shares information and your response is 'idiot' and 'troll'. Good job on contributing to the conversation. In spite of your ad hominem, there is nothing wrong with a rational discussion about the ins and outs of FO4 modding, what the licenses mean, what might or might not happen on Bethesda.net; or anything else covered in this thread. You simply don't like what is being said so you're going to try and censor the discussion until it meets your personal preferences. Sorry, not everyone is going to squee like a fan boy at every move Bethesda makes. Some people are critical thinkers. If you're not then sit quietly in a corner and do some self-examination. It is the path to happiness.

FO4 EULA Look for 'THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY.' They are using the same EULA for both the game and the editor.

To clairfy they have all rights to the knife you make in regards to it's use in their games. You can use the same 3rd party tool asset you made in multiple IPs and it remains the same, they do not have rights to your content itself only to it in regards to it's application towards their IPs. So the mod you make as a resource or to put into the game is theirs by right, but if you make a mod for xcom2 with the knife you made it does not belong to beth, it belongs to the xcom guys. for that mod, while the mod for beth games belongs to beth. (all in a legal sense.) Now this does not exclude you from rights for compensation for labor and time invested for a product sold. Which is another matter all together. The only way to beat them at their own shill is to attach an existing Open Source license to anything made and then identify the FO4 versions as protected derivatives with the attached documentation. By Bethesda's own FO4 EULA they won't be able to claim it or use it. And Bethesda can't avoid being subject to fair market compensation according to industry standards. They can't legally set and arbitrary percentage payout. I've been through all of this when I was using 3DStudio. It is the reason I switched to Poser. And the Bethesda.Net EULA: So the FO4 EULA states that Bethesda owns the content. The Bethesda.net EULA states modders own the content, unless the Editor EULA says they don't (what is underlined above). And you don't own it because that is exactly what the FO4 EULA states. They aren't contradicting one another. "You own it, unless you don't."

I'm going to try and explain what is happening with FO4 modding and Bethesda.net. I make a knife. It is an original model with original textures. Nothing was made with Bethesda assets and the knife will work with any game; Skyrim, Mass Effect:3, The Witcher 3, FO3, Morrowind, etc. But the moment I adapt it to work with FO4 Bethesda has claim to it, even though the knife doesn't require their software. That is what the FO4 EULA states. No previous Bethesda game EULAs have ever made that claim. If I am stupid enough to upload the FO4 version of the knife to Bethesda.net not only do they have tentative claim to my knife, but now they have a fully legal binding claim to it. That is what the Bethesda.net EULA states. They aren't worried if the knife is classified as a 'Game Mod'. They already own it as a condition of FO4 EULA. These licenses and EULAs don't exist in a vacuum; they are part of a great whole.

I think we're already used to it. We will get the boot of corrupt capitalism on our necks or we will get the boot of nepotistic socialism. No matter who gets into office we still have a boot on our necks. It is like a happy medium doesn't exist. People hate on Trump, but he is talking about doing a few things he can actually fulfill as President. Stop the internal audits of the U.S. Treasury so we actually know how much true value money we have; as head of the Administrative he can do that. Reevaluate U.S. contributions to the IMF and have a real accounting of the trade outs and the interest; as head of the Administrative he can do that too. His plans to force the Chinese artificial infrastructure boom into a tail spin so they can't devalue the yuan on the open market might take Senate Committee action depending how how he went about it; but that is something else he can accomplish. These things might seem unrelated until people look at the 'big picture' and Trump attempting to blow the lid off of globalism and the manipulation of currency. The other candidates aren't talking about that stuff.

You might want to reread that, in particular where it specifically states the Editor EULA supersedes the website's Terms of Service. And no where in the Terms does it state that 'Game Mods' are not 'Customized Game Materials'. It says Game Mods are not 'Content' as defined in that TOS. The Customized Game Materials cited in the FO4 EULA is not the 'Content' mentioned. The TOS 'Content' includes virtual currency, something not address in the FO4 EULA. The definitions are drastically different; they are not the same and they are talking about two different things. Your comparison is like saying the NexusMods TOS invalidates the forum's IP.Board software license. Regardless, I've been called a 'troll' and 'chicken little' for making a factual presentation and a reasonable analysis of the situation. To my credit I am not ignoring the truth of the matter. I am basing my opinion on tangible information, not what I want to be true.

It is impossible to determine what software a mod was made with. So Bethesda doesn't know if the all of the mods available right now were made with the FO4 CK or not? So the FO4 updates we've had so far haven't sabotaged people's modded game installations and made them unplayable? Okay, whatever you say. You're contradicting yourself and ignoring some facts. The PC market is just a drop in the bucket and the big money comes from consoles. Then it doesn't matter if they stifle us since we're the minority, even if we are the ones making mods. We are part of the master plan and they need us as much as we need them but they won't be controlling modding, even though Pete Hines admits they will be. Bethesda won't shoot itself in the foot if they control modding. They will be turning wild cattle into cash cows. Fun Stuff: During the monetized mods for Skyrim; out of the 17 or so mods participating Steam sold about 10,000 downloads. That means there is an interest in people modding for money and people paying to get the content. The major complaint was 'something was free before now isn't'. That won't be the case with FO4; users already agreed to monetized modding. It's in the FO4 EULA. "Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free" doesn't apply to Bethesda the licencor, it applies to us the users. The EULA allows Bethesda to dispose Customized Game Material (a mod made with their software) as they see fit; including selling it without compensation to the mod's creator. Basically the things people want complain about and 'no it will never happen' they already agreed to when they installed the game. I learned about games and licensing the hard way. I dev'd on a 2d game that uses the Godot Engine. Now the team is stuck with a game we can't sell or even distribute for free because we 'don't own it'. All of the work we did isn't really ours according to the Godot license. Bethesda's FO4 EULA is telling modders the same thing.

I think Bethesda will put a moratorium on mods not made with their official software. They'll probably do that when they update the game for the CK release. Or else they will reconfigure the steam_api.dll to force the game into safe mode until it is updated. One way or another Bethesda will make people update their games and when that happens the boot legged mods available here at Nexus won't work or they'll make the game crash. All of the current mods that have esp or esm files will have to be updated. Bethesda is going to attempt to control modding. I'm not saying they will try to 'shut down Nexus' or any other fan site, but they will make it to where people won't have a choice but to update their games and comply with the revised EULA that we all know is coming. Once that happens almost anything is possible since Bethesda is already claiming they own everything made that works with the game. Nothing can be done so just roll with it.