help with weapons

[dimetime35c]

okay i need help finding some weapons that would fit the western theme. i already got a few revolvers. im having trouble finding something that looks closest to the Winchester 1866/1873 lever action. also i cant find any shotgun that will fit the bill. ive looked online and i cant find if the pump shotgun was used in the wild west or if the double barrel was all they had. just looking for others input as im totally stuck and cant figure out what looks most authentic.

[M48A5]

If you're looking for something for the Fallout: New Vegas world, it doesn't matter since it is set in the 2200's. For old west, the first successful pump shotgun was the Winchester Model 1893.

 

Prior to that it was the lever action shotgun, Model 1887. Depending on the time frame you want to use, it would appear that there was only the exposed hammer double shotgun available.

[dimetime35c]

If you're looking for something for the Fallout: New Vegas world, it doesn't matter since it is set in the 2200's. For old west, the first successful pump shotgun was the Winchester Model 1893.

 

Prior to that it was the lever action shotgun, Model 1887. Depending on the time frame you want to use, it would appear that there was only the exposed hammer double shotgun available.

 

im trying to add like authentic western guns that were carried by the cowboys in the old west. so would the model 1893 be period accurate or would that be to late? also didnt Remington market a pump action earlier then Winchester?

[M48A5]

Remington's first pump shotgun was the Model 10, introduced in 1908.

 

As for period accuracy it would depend on the time frame you choose. The cowboy era lasted into the early part of the 20th century. Arizona did not become a state until 1912.

[dimetime35c]

Remington's first pump shotgun was the Model 10, introduced in 1908.

 

As for period accuracy it would depend on the time frame you choose. The cowboy era lasted into the early part of the 20th century. Arizona did not become a state until 1912.

 

wow i didnt know that! im looking for like the period that was the height of the cowboy era. like when the west was at its best if you wanna call it that. kinda like the height of the gold rush. in terms of guns would you say main ones would be Colt, Smith and Weston, Winchester, and Remington? those are the main names that keep popping up when i research the time frames and the ones that seem the most common. finally would you say the revolver rifle was basically dead during that era as the repeating lever actions were far superior to them in every way?

[M48A5]

I think you want to set the time period after the Civil War. The gold rush was 1849 and everyone was still using single shot, muzzle loading pistols and rifles.

 

The revolver and repeating rifle and shotgun did not come into widespread use until after the Civil War and the introduction of self contained metallic cartridges. The classic cowboy gun, the Colt Peacemaker did not appear until 1873.

 

There were other revolving pistols available prior to 1873, but they were usually of a weak design and under-powered.

[dimetime35c]

I think you want to set the time period after the Civil War. The gold rush was 1849 and everyone was still using single shot, muzzle loading pistols and rifles.

 

The revolver and repeating rifle and shotgun did not come into widespread use until after the Civil War and the introduction of self contained metallic cartridges. The classic cowboy gun, the Colt Peacemaker did not appear until 1873.

 

There were other revolving pistols available prior to 1873, but they were usually of a weak design and under-powered.

 

lol its been years sense ive really looked at a history book. i know i sound stupid right now. idk why i always thought the gold rush was after the civil war. so the kinda glory years of the wild west were any period from the end of the civil war up until world war 1 ish right? its funny i love western novels and have a bunch that my grandpa gave me. the really old like dime store novels. but despite loving the fantasy of the west i know little to nothing about the actual wild west the books were based on.

[madmongo]

Prior to the cartridge revolvers of the 1870s, you had cap and ball revolvers that pre-date the Civil War. A lot of those were definitely not weak and under-powered. I happen to own a model 1851 Colt Navy and it's not a weak gun. In fact, Wild Bill Hickock used to carry two of them.

 

Their main disadvantage is that they were cap and ball, which means that to load one, you put a powder charge into one of the cylinders, put the ball on top of that, ram it down with the ramrod lever on the barrel, then do the same with the other 5 cylinders, then cover it all with grease to prevent chain firing (all cylinders firing at once, which causes the pistol to basically blow up in your hand, it's not pretty). Then put caps on the back side of each cylinder. That's a lot of work, then you fire off your six shots, and you get to do it all again. It's much faster and easier to reload a modern cartridge revolver.

 

But as far as how much of a whallop they pack, they were pretty effective. I definitely wouldn't call them weak or under-powered. There were some models that were a bit weak, but you can find weak pistols all throughout history. The Colt Walker from the late 1840s was an absolute beast. It was the most powerful cap and ball revolver ever made, and I definitely would not call it weak.

 

And let's face it, some of those old guns just look cool. There's a colt army conversion here on the nexus that is just a pretty darn attractive gun. There's also a Colt Walker around here somewhere.

 

There are a couple of revolving rifles here on the nexus that also look cool, and also fit really well with the old west theme. As for historical accuracy, you would never want to use a revolving rifle. Revolving rifles back in the day were famous for two things. First, they were great for spraying small bits of lead and powder at extremely high velocity through the gap between the cylinder and the barrel, right into the shooter's left forearm (ouch). Revolver pistols do that too, except with a pistol, you've got both hands behind the cylinder, so the spray of metal bits doesn't hurt you at all. Second, if you didn't keep them spotlessly clean, they were great at chain firing. At least when a pistol chain fires, most of the pistol is in front of your hand, but if a revolving rifle chain fires, you've got that exploding cylinder and all of its shrapnel right next to your left forearm. There's a reason that revolving rifles never became popular back in the day. The military sold off all of the ones they bought for pennies on the dollar for what they paid for them.

 

But dang if they don't look cool.

 

Don't get too hung up on the history.

[dimetime35c]

so would you say the best way to stick to period accurate would be to add a bunch of lever actions rifles, pistols, and double barrel shotguns? then add in a few lever action shotguns? would the bolt action rifle be outta the period or was it available but either only to military personal or carried a very high price?????

[madmongo]

Well, period accurate is a funny thing. In the real west, you didn't really have gunslingers walking around with six shooters and face-offs in the street. The typical gunslinger standoff really only happened once in real life with Wild Bill Hickcock, and even then it wasn't quite like the typical Hollywood face-off. Period accurate is that most people didn't even have guns.

 

But yeah, basically, period accurate weapons are going to be revolvers, single and double barrel shotguns, and lever action rifles. There were a few lever action shotguns, but those mostly came a bit later, like the Winchester 1887 shotgun. If you are looking for roughly the cowboy era, that's probably close enough.

 

There were some bolt action rifles back then, but they were things like the paper cartridge needle guns of the 1840s and 1850s. Not really a cowboy weapon. Militaries started using bolt action cartridge rifles in the 1870s or so. They weren't in widespread use until the end of the 1880s, and even then they were mostly military use.

 

Another thing you saw early in the cowboy era was the pepperbox revolver. I don't know if there are any pepperbox revolvers on the nexus. Basically, instead of having a cylinder like a modern revolver, you had entire barrels that rotated around. So for a six-shooter, you'd actually have a pistol with six barrels and one trigger, and you'd rotate all six barrels around. Pepperbox revolvers didn't last long either because they had a nasty tendency to chain fire, and no one wanted a gun that was prone to blowing up in your hand.

Edited September 30, 2015 by madmongo