Unison

[rself3]

Edit: I've taken down my 'rant' because this may turn into a real project...

Edited October 9, 2015 by rself3

[rself3]

Here is a rough draft of what I believe a good project plan should include.

 

Vision: To create a standardized ‘4^th’ esm in the Morrowind load order that can be reliably referenced and substantially adds to the Morrowind experience. This mod will be lore-friendly, cleanly developed, and stay in the general ‘spirit’ of the game as it was intended by Bethesda.

 

Mission: To provide the community with a mod resource that contains reliable references, patches, fixes, expansions, and assets that both add a substantial amount of in-game and developer content. Essentially, it will make massive modification of the game with numerous classic/newer mods as simple and universal as possible.

 

Scope: The scope of the work primarily focuses on the gameplay mechanic, game experience, assets able to be used by the game, and overall appearance of the game. It seeks to only include completed (or as near to it as we can get) mods from 2002-2015, unless the project extends into the future substantially.

 

Plan: The general plan for including mods can follow from the flow example:

 

STAGE 1: Information Gathering

 

1.) Compile lists and zip files of all potential mods that can be included in the project.

2.) Assess mod for one of three options: unique asset inclusion (if the gameplay content/modification is not in line with the mod’s vision and unique assets are added), complete inclusion (if the entirety of the mod is appropriate, as is), or exclusion (if the mod adds neither unique assets nor appropriate content/modifications).

3.) Order potential mod inclusion list by level of ‘importance’ (subjective determination of which mods are the most beneficial to have standardized).

4.) Finalize lists and achieve project consent for all potentially includable content.

 

STAGE 2: Verification of Compatibility

 

1.) Check for known issues with mlox or equivalent load order programs.

2.) Direct contact with mod author, if possible, to assess for consent to use, scope of mod, and known issues.*

3.) If minimal ‘cleanliness’ issues exist with the mod, check for direct compatibility with existing core esm of project.

4.) If compatibility issues exist, collaborate with mod author or, if not an option, consider either manual revision/patching or abandonment of mod for inclusion. (If the estimated amount of work time to fix the mod is greater than the estimated amount of time to recreate a compatible version of it from the ground-up, then the mod should not be considered for inclusion.)**

 

STAGE 3: Compilation

 

1.) Once compatibility is established, the mods should be merged with the primary esm and listed on a primary document file, giving credits to the mod author(s) and listing a brief description of the added content.

 

*If contact cannot be established, we should send a request to use the mod and if no reply is received within a predetermined amount of time (perhaps a month), we can assume that the mod is abandoned and use it at our own discretion unless it conflicts with clearly posted rules of usage.

 

**If an otherwise popular mod is not included due to main file compatibility, we should consider investing time in making it compatible so that it can be included. Alteration of mod content for proper inclusion is not beyond the scope of this project.

 

Once the developer(s) in charge of this project are thoroughly satisfied that all of the great mods of the last decade or so have been included and all reasonably well-known community sources have been exhausted, then a final compilation can be made that reduces all of the individual mods into a single esm for release. Due to the nature of the project, piece-meal release should be avoided so that user frustration does not kill support for the project.

 

Websites worth visiting:

Good intro to mods starting place: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1305729-mod-recommendations-for-new-players/

MGSO mod list: http://www.ornitocopter.net/mo_wiki/index.php?title=Credits#Included_Mods_.28In_alphabetical_order.29

Recommended mod list #1: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1155980-povuholos-tomorrowind-a-mod-recommendations-list-for-today/

Altervista Morrowind Mod Site: http://abitoftaste.altervista.org/morrowind/index.php?option=downloads&catid=30&Itemid=50&-Morrowind-mods

The story of Megawind, and what NOT to do: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/04/megawind-tes3s-ultro-mod-pack/ &

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1700703

Permission to use mods page by uploader: http://mw.modhistory.com/permissions

Legalities of mod licensing: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33pw0t/licensing_and_mods_coming_from_a_gamer_with_a_bit/

Master Tool List (Many Broken Links): http://www.mwmythicmods.com/toolsmod.htm

Animation Mod List (2010): http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1071872-animation-mod-list/

Edited October 8, 2015 by rself3

[Dragon32]

Here's one of many threads suggesting the same thing over at Bethsoft: Requested similar to ornicopter's Overhaul The arguments for and against are pretty much covered here as they in other, similar, threads: who chooses? what's lore and is it important? how do you cope with updates (a big issue for MGSO users)? which mod is best? what does that even mean? who'll manage getting and recording permissions (e.g. check the Better Clothes readme)? etc.

 

There's a link in that thread to the game experience overhaul which the guys behind MGSO are / were putting together. Been quite for a few months on that front.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Dragon32

[rself3]

Aha! Thank you for the info. It may be worth throwing in with that lot to see what comes of it. Cheers!

 

EDIT: Well, it appears that it devolved rather quickly into a petty argument on the boards over there. Haha. IDK, though. I think that with a few good team players and some advice from somebody familiar with the good mods, we can really make something happen. Every idea starts at pre-alpha.

Edited October 7, 2015 by rself3

[Dragon32]

Yeah, toys and prams do often part company when this subject raises its head.

 

The Game Experience overhaul is the only thing which has progressed beyond what you've just read in that thread. There're a few mod lists (like BTB's) which people have written over the years but what Kingpix is / was doing is the only one which has got any further than "Wouldn't it be a good idea if..." "Well, actually there are some issues..." which you're now familiar with.

 

BTW, probably best (if soliciting help on this) to avoid referring to people you're asking for help from as old farts. Just a word to the wise... :wink:

[rself3]

It looks like I may need all the help I can get to sort this all out. (Especially since its been 3 years since I fooled around with modding any of Bethesda's games.)

 

It looks like about 2 years ago, some progress was being made up to the point of taking volunteers for play testing the Overhaul project: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1477387-req-mgso-software-testing-part-ii/

 

I am disappointed that I cannot find anything else on the status of this, though: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1211599-wipz-morrowind-overhaul-game-experience/

 

I think that I'll continue to dig around and see what else I can find...

 

I'm just curious, Dragon, do you keep the detailed mod info for the submissions you get for mlox? I take it that you have a good bit of experience with figuring out if mods are compatible. Out of all the ones you've seen, how many *good* (lore-friendly, high quality, etc.) ones do you think exist? I keep seeing the same group of mods show up time and time again, but I know there has to be more that just aren't as popular.

[Dragon32]

It looks like I may need all the help I can get to sort this all out. (Especially since its been 3 years since I fooled around with modding any of Bethesda's games.)

 

It looks like about 2 years ago, some progress was being made up to the point of taking volunteers for play testing the Overhaul project: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1477387-req-mgso-software-testing-part-ii/

 

I am disappointed that I cannot find anything else on the status of this, though: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1211599-wipz-morrowind-overhaul-game-experience/

 

I think that I'll continue to dig around and see what else I can find...

<snip>

Found this on the game experience overhaul.

<snip>

I'm just curious, Dragon, do you keep the detailed mod info for the submissions you get for mlox?

<snip>

No. I'll read mod read me files and put rules for the conflicts and load order into mlox. For things which people report on here and Bethsoft I'll add a rule which reflects their findings and link to the post. Then there's some basic checks of the plugin itself (e.g. evil GMSTs) and that's about it.

 

<snip>

Out of all the ones you've seen, how many *good* (lore-friendly, high quality, etc.) ones do you think exist? I keep seeing the same group of mods show up time and time again, but I know there has to be more that just aren't as popular.

Ugh. Impossible question. There's hundreds, maybe even thousands which would meet that criteria.

 

There're about a dozen herbalism mods I've found, a dozen changing Dark Brotherhood attacks, another dozen doing mana regeneration, another dozen armour re-balances. And a billionty one player houses in Balmora.

 

A lot of people use MGSO so you'll see those mods a lot.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Dragon32

[rself3]

 

Ugh. Impossible question. There's hundreds, maybe even thousands which would meet that criteria.

 

There're about a dozen herbalism mods I've found, a dozen changing Dark Brotherhood attacks, another dozen doing mana regeneration, another dozen armour re-balances. And a billionty one player houses in Balmora.

 

A lot of people use MGSO so you'll see those mods a lot.

 

 

Yeah, that's a good point. I thought a good personal starting point (if for nothing else, my Morrowind playthrough) is to compile a list of the posted MGSO updates into a single installable zip for future use. I have no clue how to reach those guys other than posting on their site, but I think I'll tinker around on my own until I can figure it out. If something novel comes of it, I may try to politic around to see if we can make something happen. After spending all night downloading and rearranging fixes, it would be nice to make something grander of it.

 

I think it is a shame that no one has maintained that project (at least publicly). After reading around, I think it's because people disappear and take their knowledge and accessibility to a project's inner workings with them. It's also not an easy undertaking when starting fresh, by far.

 

Btw, I was doing a quick search for modding tools for Morrowind and I have been amazed at the level of dead links that I have come across. Do you have a recommended set of tools that you feel are the best to work with/the most powerful?

 

EDIT: also found kingpix's email for MGSO related stuff: [email protected]. I sent an email asking to chip in. I guess this will be the true test to see if MGSO is still alive or not.

Edited October 8, 2015 by rself3

[Dragon32]

Looking at his Bethsoft profile Kingpix was last online there in July. There was an interregnum for his overhaul work as he was on national services (he's Italian, IIRC). So he's popped up again after a long absence, maybe he will again. I dunno.

[rself3]

Looking at his Bethsoft profile Kingpix was last online there in July. There was an interregnum for his overhaul work as he was on national services (he's Italian, IIRC). So he's popped up again after a long absence, maybe he will again. I dunno.

 

I feel silly for not even thinking to look there. I crawled over his website until I found a pdf that just so happened to have that email address in it. Maybe I should have started over at Bethesda's Forums and saved myself the trouble. Haha.