Preparing for the Enclave Return mod

[TeamBacon]

 

 

 

 

I'm sure we could go round-and-round on this, but that's not really what this thread's for. So I'll just say that I played some really compellingly written stuff in the old system. The biggest problem as a writer that I run into, and what I find often rather limiting, is trying to match FO4's Question-Sarcasm-Nice-Mean breakdown, which feels at times inappropriate per the situation and at other times way too constraining. I am given occasionally to the temptation to throw that model to the wind, but it's what they've kind of built the dialogue system around so I do try to maintain it where I can, even if it means I scowl at my screen a little more.

 

 

Well, if that is the case, it is your own self imposed limitations of using a system of 'Question-Sarcasm-Nice-Mean' that isn't even a real thing...

 

You will have a much better mod if you don't limit yourself with those kind of silly ideas. But I guess if this thread is not in fact about making this mod as good as possible, I will shut my mouth and leave.

[TimeLadyKatie]

 

 

Well, if that is the case, it is your own self imposed limitations of using a system of 'Question-Sarcasm-Nice-Mean' that isn't even a real thing...

 

You will have a much better mod if you don't limit yourself with those kind of silly ideas. But I guess if this thread is not in fact about making this mod as good as possible, I will shut my mouth and leave.

 

 

And end our delightful repartee?

 

It doesn't exist in all cases that if you press right you're an ass, but it does hold in most cases. And left is almost always snark. Down is nearly always sincere. Straying too far from these models, especially if they can be worked within, will help keep a smooth transition between mod and game. Ideally, I like it when my players aren't thinking of themselves as playing "The Enclave Returns" or "The Great Pretender" but thinks of it as Fallout 4.

 

Is following the very tight boxes for the arrows a significant part of that synergy with the base game I'd like to feel? No. But it's a part that I'd like to preserve when I can, because it's what players are used to.

 

It's a tight bit of work to make everything function as intended and still expand the storytelling potential of the game, but it's something I'd love to prove can be done on this scale. More work for us, sure, but I'm fine with that. Hell, if it goes well it might make the case that the Bioware dialogue system actually can work for those who whinged so much after first seeing it.

[TeamBacon]

 

 

 

Well, if that is the case, it is your own self imposed limitations of using a system of 'Question-Sarcasm-Nice-Mean' that isn't even a real thing...

 

You will have a much better mod if you don't limit yourself with those kind of silly ideas. But I guess if this thread is not in fact about making this mod as good as possible, I will shut my mouth and leave.

 

 

And end our delightful repartee?

 

It doesn't exist in all cases that if you press right you're an ass, but it does hold in most cases. And left is almost always snark. Down is nearly always sincere. Straying too far from these models, especially if they can be worked within, will help keep a smooth transition between mod and game. Ideally, I like it when my players aren't thinking of themselves as playing "The Enclave Returns" or "The Great Pretender" but thinks of it as Fallout 4.

 

Is following the very tight boxes for the arrows a significant part of that synergy with the base game I'd like to feel? No. But it's a part that I'd like to preserve when I can, because it's what players are used to.

 

It's a tight bit of work to make everything function as intended and still expand the storytelling potential of the game, but it's something I'd love to prove can be done on this scale. More work for us, sure, but I'm fine with that. Hell, if it goes well it might make the case that the Bioware dialogue system actually can work for those who whinged so much after first seeing it.

 

 

The only one of those that is actually true is that the right/B option is usually somewhat of a negative response...

 

But you can just the same have a 2 option choice and use just left/X and right/B and have neither one be inherently negative or positive. The possibilities you can do with the shaping of your choices is quite vast and fun to play around with as a creative tool.

 

Honestly... the though of writing in such a manner that you described leaves me feeling a bit depressed inside... Maybe I am just too passionate about the work... I think I am going to step away from the Nexus for a moment...

[jonnyetiz]

Have some stuff going on, I won't be able to work on the project for a little bit sadly. I will try my best to keep working, but I can't promise that the mod will be out soon. This is where the status updates have gone, if anyone is wondering. We also still need some voice actors. A few messaged me, and I asked them some things, but still no response.

[Rattlerx5150]

Ill say it again

 

the Enclave is Dead

 

they died in Fallout 3, there were only a few old geezers left in Fnv

[jonnyetiz]

Ill say it again

 

the Enclave is Dead

 

they died in Fallout 3, there were only a few old geezers left in Fnv

I never said the project is done, and keep in mind that there are still quite a few spread across the remains of America. Our planned story makes it possible.

[TimeLadyKatie]

Ill say it again

 

the Enclave is Dead

 

they died in Fallout 3, there were only a few old geezers left in Fnv

If you think that any organization attempting to reassert a government, especially after committing genocide on a large swath of land, had only two garrisons of troops, then sure.

 

I'll say again that the idea that there were no Enclave troops outside Washington DC and the oil rig is just untrue. We know, for instance, that there were Enclave troops in the Great Midwestern Commonwealth that have no clear fate associated with them - that's canon. So, what we're left with is a movement that's been leaderless, zealous and in retreat, but there's no reason to think that means they're gone.

 

The Enclave soldiers in general seemed very committed to the cause, and wouldn't likely disband at a few high-profile assassinations. Thinking like an Enclave soldier, those assassinations are the savage wasteland committing acts of terrorism against the true government of the United States, and a half-decent propaganda campaign would motivate soldiers all the more with that.

 

That said, ten years of being leaderless after two striking defeats is going to change an army. It's going to make them desperate. It's going to push them to extremes, and maybe fracture their belief on what is the right path to follow. So the Enclave you'll see here is going to reflect the kind of situation they're in.

 

But not only does the idea that no Enclave garrisons remain after Fallout 3 make no practical sense, it also doesn't mesh well with the canonical existence of Midwestern Enclave troops.

[CiderMuffin]

 

Ill say it again

 

the Enclave is Dead

 

they died in Fallout 3, there were only a few old geezers left in Fnv

If you think that any organization attempting to reassert a government, especially after committing genocide on a large swath of land, had only two garrisons of troops, then sure.

 

I'll say again that the idea that there were no Enclave troops outside Washington DC and the oil rig is just untrue. We know, for instance, that there were Enclave troops in the Great Midwestern Commonwealth that have no clear fate associated with them - that's canon. So, what we're left with is a movement that's been leaderless, zealous and in retreat, but there's no reason to think that means they're gone.

 

The Enclave soldiers in general seemed very committed to the cause, and wouldn't likely disband at a few high-profile assassinations. Thinking like an Enclave soldier, those assassinations are the savage wasteland committing acts of terrorism against the true government of the United States, and a half-decent propaganda campaign would motivate soldiers all the more with that.

 

That said, ten years of being leaderless after two striking defeats is going to change an army. It's going to make them desperate. It's going to push them to extremes, and maybe fracture their belief on what is the right path to follow. So the Enclave you'll see here is going to reflect the kind of situation they're in.

 

But not only does the idea that no Enclave garrisons remain after Fallout 3 make no practical sense, it also doesn't mesh well with the canonical existence of Midwestern Enclave troops.

 

Tbf one can make the claim that the Chicago outposts are gone due to the fact that the Mid-western Brotherhood of Steel survives in every ending of tactics and the fact ED-E followed the set path they were given but never made contact with the Chicago outposts and this is proven by the repairs where it was a waster that repaired it and ED-E's recordings for lonesome road.

 

That being said I can imagine some small group of survivors managed to run away from the mid-west and the Capital Wasteland but having them change would make them Enclave in name only as genetic superiority and "it's us or them" mentality are major points of the Enclave's structure.

[TeamBacon]

 

I never said the project is done...

 

But it is, isn't it?

[TimeLadyKatie]

 

 

Ill say it again

 

the Enclave is Dead

 

they died in Fallout 3, there were only a few old geezers left in Fnv

If you think that any organization attempting to reassert a government, especially after committing genocide on a large swath of land, had only two garrisons of troops, then sure.

 

I'll say again that the idea that there were no Enclave troops outside Washington DC and the oil rig is just untrue. We know, for instance, that there were Enclave troops in the Great Midwestern Commonwealth that have no clear fate associated with them - that's canon. So, what we're left with is a movement that's been leaderless, zealous and in retreat, but there's no reason to think that means they're gone.

 

The Enclave soldiers in general seemed very committed to the cause, and wouldn't likely disband at a few high-profile assassinations. Thinking like an Enclave soldier, those assassinations are the savage wasteland committing acts of terrorism against the true government of the United States, and a half-decent propaganda campaign would motivate soldiers all the more with that.

 

That said, ten years of being leaderless after two striking defeats is going to change an army. It's going to make them desperate. It's going to push them to extremes, and maybe fracture their belief on what is the right path to follow. So the Enclave you'll see here is going to reflect the kind of situation they're in.

 

But not only does the idea that no Enclave garrisons remain after Fallout 3 make no practical sense, it also doesn't mesh well with the canonical existence of Midwestern Enclave troops.

 

Tbf one can make the claim that the Chicago outposts are gone due to the fact that the Mid-western Brotherhood of Steel survives in every ending of tactics and the fact ED-E followed the set path they were given but never made contact with the Chicago outposts and this is proven by the repairs where it was a waster that repaired it and ED-E's recordings for lonesome road.

 

That being said I can imagine some small group of survivors managed to run away from the mid-west and the Capital Wasteland but having them change would make them Enclave in name only as genetic superiority and "it's us or them" mentality are major points of the Enclave's structure.

 

 

Oh, don't misunderstand, the Enclave's central values remain, because their troops are zealously loyal to those ideals. But the tactics, the behaviors, even the public face of the organization may evolve in a situation like the one they are currently facing.

 

Also, I wasn't pointing to the Midwest as the origin of the Enclave we see here, but rather as proof that more Enclave garrisons exist.

 

 

 

I never said the project is done...

 

But it is, isn't it?

 

 

One day, Bacon, I'll unravel the secret to your seemingly arbitrary hostility, but I am doubtful that today is that day.

 

No. The project is not abandoned. I can safely say that the script is still in development.

Edited July 8, 2016 by TimeLadyKatie