"Dumbing down for consoles."

[dpgillam]

I think there is one issue too many gamers forget.

Your getting your game from a software company. That means computer people.

Who are like engineers but nerdier :laugh: :laugh:

"If "A" is good, then "2A" is twice as good"

 

is a real thinking concept from many of these people. Then you have Marketing. They support whatever the focus groups say they should support.

 

(WoW chosen in example for no reason)

WoW was doing good, and few other RPGs were, so to the computer and marketing mind, that means make it more like WoW to make more money.

YES! They really are that formulaic and, well.... *derp* for lack of a better word. Their brains are wired very similar to the computers they work on; wonderful for logic and data-crunching, but piss-poor at imagination.

Add in management, and you get a game designed by committee. For anyone that hasnt worked corporate world, "by committee" means

A) Its gonna suck

B) Its gonna go over-budget

C) its gonna suck

D) Its gonna be late

and

E) did I mention its gonna suck?

Thats why Skyrim sucked kilometers of monkey c*ck until the mods started happening.

And you can bet "The Next Big Thing" will too.

Edited December 30, 2015 by dpgillam

[Wouter445]

Blame is by designing the games and control of console players that this dumping down is happening.

first a controller from a console is very primitive compare to a mouse/keyboard meaning they need simple interface, simple interface meaning simple game mechanics.

 

also it fits the developers simple game mechanics meaning less programing

[Thaneize]

I wouldnt generally say console gamers are the people to blame here, steam has made a great effort to get the casual players to the PC. Steam has better prices, the Steam Fullscreen mode and Windows has native Xbox Controller Support and steam is bringing steam OS now whch turns a PC into a console with native Mouse and Keyboard Support.

 

If use Bethesda games as an Example:

 

As the chars on page one shows, the Skilltrees went smaller and smaller, but if you look closely, there are some skills that stay over time, and those are the skills 90% of the players prefer over everything.

Also some skills got parted to multiple ones over time to compensate this.

 

It wouldnt call that doubing down, i would call it optimization. Throw away what almost nobody uses and save the time for more important things. You might have noticed that over the years the Game environments became bigger and better and more natural and filled with life. One point is the increasing power of the Gaming Machines but another point is simply because they can add more and more little things the more clutter they remove.

 

A good example for this was Fallout. Since FO3 the series felt like a slow RPG-shooter with bad gunplay, so i preferred the VATS in every case.

Now since fallout 4 is out, the game has changed to a quicker RPG-shooter with very good gunplay so the VATS is used if you have no idea where the enemys are, to land criticals or even just for fun (at least thats how i play). Fallout was in MY OPINION, always half shooter half RPG, just that the shooter part was terrible before FO4. In an elder scrolls game these reductions, and the 4 options talk menu (would either like to see the old one or a mass effect 1 like radial talk menu with 8+ options) and the reduced skill and perk system.

 

Still there are some questionable decisions with that.

 

The cut to reduce attributes to just Health, Magic and Stamina in Skyrim is bad and i would love to see them returned in TES VI. And i fear to see that beth is doing to TES VI what they done to FO4s skill system.

 

Imagine you play the game and improve a helmet, after the 20th helmet you het a "star" in armorsmith 1/4...no thanks

Edited January 1, 2016 by Thaneize

[HeyYou]

What you are describing IS "dumbing down", to appeal to the more 'casual gamers'. There is no compensation for lost skills/abilities/etc, some skills have simply disappeared, along with some abilities, not to mention things like custom spells, enchanting weapons, etc. Things change, but, that does not always equal "better", in my opinion, most of the changes are NOT for the better. The RPG elements are getting cut. Beth is now making action/adventure games. Not "real" RPGs.

[sunshinenbrick]

While some things may be 'dumbed down', it is different to a game franchise or whatever changing course. Just because a game is complex does not make it superior to everything else. Some of the simplest games can have extraordinary depth and be unique.

 

Technology changes things too. With Fallout/TES series for example... the games are basically taking a different direction and approaching the idea of an 'role playing game' from another angle. Whereas before the game had to cope with being a much more solitary experience and would have to contain more details so as to immerse you in the world. Now we have a global modding scene, multi-player online co-op, in-game community chat and visuals/sounds that can rival some films. In this particular case the trade off has been character development and levelling systems in favour of real-time combat and the opportunities of creating 'real' virtual settlements with other players from around the world. It's still role play but it is just different and requires a different set of skills to play.

 

Now whether one likes the changes in direction or whether they think a series has improved also comes down to taste. Personally I don't like the change in direction of some franchises, with Final Fantasy being a personal heartbreaker... just how can it all go so wrong??? But what is true for one example is not true across the board and a great deal of the time it goes on a game by game basis. Neither do I believe it has anything to do with what platform it is on or what controller you use - a flight simulator is not automatically better than a strategy game just because it uses every key on the board as opposed to just a mouse, besides they are very different experiences with room for ingenuity (Black and White mouse gestures, for example). Games are different and it is about how creative and passionate the developers are (also sometimes how much money and time they have - too little OR too much)

 

Looking at the bigger picture there will always be more rubbish than gold, so are the way of things in music, movies, literature or even actual rubbish and gold. But like the saying also goes, one person's rubbish is another's treasure, and I am kinda glad because its only then that true brilliance and ingenuity can exist.

[JimboUK]

While some things may be 'dumbed down', it is different to a game franchise or whatever changing course. Just because a game is complex does not make it superior to everything else. Some of the simplest games can have extraordinary depth and be unique.

 

Technology changes things too. With Fallout/TES series for example... the games are basically taking a different direction and approaching the idea of an 'role playing game' from another angle. Whereas before the game had to cope with being a much more solitary experience and would have to contain more details so as to immerse you in the world. Now we have a global modding scene, multi-player online co-op, in-game community chat and visuals/sounds that can rival some films. In this particular case the trade off has been character development and levelling systems in favour of real-time combat and the opportunities of creating 'real' virtual settlements with other players from around the world. It's still role play but it is just different and requires a different set of skills to play.

 

Now whether one likes the changes in direction or whether they think a series has improved also comes down to taste. Personally I don't like the change in direction of some franchises, with Final Fantasy being a personal heartbreaker... just how can it all go so wrong??? But what is true for one example is not true across the board and a great deal of the time it goes on a game by game basis. Neither do I believe it has anything to do with what platform it is on or what controller you use - a flight simulator is not automatically better than a strategy game just because it uses every key on the board as opposed to just a mouse, besides they are very different experiences with room for ingenuity (Black and White mouse gestures, for example). Games are different and it is about how creative and passionate the developers are (also sometimes how much money and time they have - too little OR too much)

 

Looking at the bigger picture there will always be more rubbish than gold, so are the way of things in music, movies, literature or even actual rubbish and gold. But like the saying also goes, one person's rubbish is another's treasure, and I am kinda glad because its only then that true brilliance and ingenuity can exist.

 

They're not approaching role playing from another angle, they're actively removing role playing from their titles. Fallout 4 is not an RPG, it's an action adventure game set in something that looks like the Fallout universe, it's closer to Far Cry than it is to the previous titles.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

While some things may be 'dumbed down', it is different to a game franchise or whatever changing course. Just because a game is complex does not make it superior to everything else. Some of the simplest games can have extraordinary depth and be unique.

 

Technology changes things too. With Fallout/TES series for example... the games are basically taking a different direction and approaching the idea of an 'role playing game' from another angle. Whereas before the game had to cope with being a much more solitary experience and would have to contain more details so as to immerse you in the world. Now we have a global modding scene, multi-player online co-op, in-game community chat and visuals/sounds that can rival some films. In this particular case the trade off has been character development and levelling systems in favour of real-time combat and the opportunities of creating 'real' virtual settlements with other players from around the world. It's still role play but it is just different and requires a different set of skills to play.

 

Now whether one likes the changes in direction or whether they think a series has improved also comes down to taste. Personally I don't like the change in direction of some franchises, with Final Fantasy being a personal heartbreaker... just how can it all go so wrong??? But what is true for one example is not true across the board and a great deal of the time it goes on a game by game basis. Neither do I believe it has anything to do with what platform it is on or what controller you use - a flight simulator is not automatically better than a strategy game just because it uses every key on the board as opposed to just a mouse, besides they are very different experiences with room for ingenuity (Black and White mouse gestures, for example). Games are different and it is about how creative and passionate the developers are (also sometimes how much money and time they have - too little OR too much)

 

Looking at the bigger picture there will always be more rubbish than gold, so are the way of things in music, movies, literature or even actual rubbish and gold. But like the saying also goes, one person's rubbish is another's treasure, and I am kinda glad because its only then that true brilliance and ingenuity can exist.

 

 

 

They're not approaching role playing from another angle, they're actively removing role playing from their titles. Fallout 4 is not an RPG, it's an action adventure game set in something that looks like the Fallout universe, it's closer to Far Cry than it is to the previous titles.

 

 

Its not a traditional RPG no, but these things are not always so easily defined or categorised. Like with music genres, a lot of music can fit into a lot of different categories. Whether its music or games, I try to take things on a case by case basis - just because I like rock doesn't mean I like ALL rock, its the same with games.

 

My point with games like Fallout is that the role you are playing is a very different from before, if not an actual complete overhaul of how the game is to be approached and played. Some may prefer it, some may dislike it but that alone doesn't make something objectively bad. In this case, yes it might, but my point was more that just because that may be true in this case, it doesn't mean it is the case for everything.

 

Selling something as being something it is not... well now that is perhaps a whole other debate!

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

While some things may be 'dumbed down', it is different to a game franchise or whatever changing course. Just because a game is complex does not make it superior to everything else. Some of the simplest games can have extraordinary depth and be unique.

 

Technology changes things too. With Fallout/TES series for example... the games are basically taking a different direction and approaching the idea of an 'role playing game' from another angle. Whereas before the game had to cope with being a much more solitary experience and would have to contain more details so as to immerse you in the world. Now we have a global modding scene, multi-player online co-op, in-game community chat and visuals/sounds that can rival some films. In this particular case the trade off has been character development and levelling systems in favour of real-time combat and the opportunities of creating 'real' virtual settlements with other players from around the world. It's still role play but it is just different and requires a different set of skills to play.

 

Now whether one likes the changes in direction or whether they think a series has improved also comes down to taste. Personally I don't like the change in direction of some franchises, with Final Fantasy being a personal heartbreaker... just how can it all go so wrong??? But what is true for one example is not true across the board and a great deal of the time it goes on a game by game basis. Neither do I believe it has anything to do with what platform it is on or what controller you use - a flight simulator is not automatically better than a strategy game just because it uses every key on the board as opposed to just a mouse, besides they are very different experiences with room for ingenuity (Black and White mouse gestures, for example). Games are different and it is about how creative and passionate the developers are (also sometimes how much money and time they have - too little OR too much)

 

Looking at the bigger picture there will always be more rubbish than gold, so are the way of things in music, movies, literature or even actual rubbish and gold. But like the saying also goes, one person's rubbish is another's treasure, and I am kinda glad because its only then that true brilliance and ingenuity can exist.

 

 

 

They're not approaching role playing from another angle, they're actively removing role playing from their titles. Fallout 4 is not an RPG, it's an action adventure game set in something that looks like the Fallout universe, it's closer to Far Cry than it is to the previous titles.

 

 

Its not a traditional RPG no, but these things are not always so easily defined or categorised. Like with music genres, a lot of music can fit into a lot of different categories. Whether its music or games, I try to take things on a case by case basis - just because I like rock doesn't mean I like ALL rock, its the same with games.

 

My point with games like Fallout is that the role you are playing is a very different from before, if not an actual complete overhaul of how the game is to be approached and played. Some may prefer it, some may dislike it but that alone doesn't make something objectively bad. In this case, yes it might, but my point was more that just because that may be true in this case, it doesn't mean it is the case for everything.

 

Selling something as being something it is not... well now that is perhaps a whole other debate!

 

 

It's not a role playing game at all, you're playing a preset character put on a predefined path with no choice but to follow it, yes you can wonder around and look at things but you can do that in any open world game. You can't define your characters through your actions because the lack of a reputation system means the world does not react to anything you do, you can't define your character through skills because there aren't any and you can't define your character through dialogue because it's so limited. You have no choice but to roleplay as a concerned parent because that's all the game will let you do, choices in quests usually come down to do it now or do it later.

 

Let's compare the opening of New Vegas to the opening of FO4....

 

In New Vegas after leaving chargen the first thing you're likely to come across is a stand off in the pub, the bar owner and an ex con squaring up to each other, as soon as that is finished you can ask the bar owner in depth about what is going on, you can speak to other people in the bar, get their opinions and get to know them, you can then go down the road and get the ex cons side of things, at this point you get a choice, you can help the town or you can help the obvious bad guys, there will be consequences for this choice so you should think before acting. Let's say you decide to help the town, you're then tasked with getting people together and equipping them, here your skills come into play, a good Barter level will get you a discount on armour, your Speech skill can get Trudy to help, Explosives will net you dynamite from Pete ect. Once the fight is over you've made friends and enemies, who the friends are and who the enemies are will be a result of a choice you made. At this early stage you've set out what sort of character you will play.

 

Now FO4, the first actual quest is in Concord, you arrive there to find these people under attack, complete strangers, of course this being a Bethesda game you won't be allowed to speak to the bad guys, they're hostile and attack you on sight. At this point you're asked to help these people, this is where you get a typical Bethesda choice, do it now or do it later. Anyway you go in and once again you have no choice but to fight the bad guys, once through them you get to speak to whatever his name is and this is where is the facepalming starts. You're asked to go onto the roof, put on power armour, rip a minigun from a Vertibird and go all Rambo on the bad guys, this is especially hilarious if you're playing a female character who is supposed to be a suburban housewife. With that done you return to whatever his name is and he pats you on the head for being so heroic, at this point you may be thinking "I like your gun" and if you were playing as a selfish or evil character you'd kill him and take it, sadly you're not allowed to do that, no matter how many rounds you put into this guy he will always get up again and not be too bothered about what you've done. After that you go up the road with him where he makes you, a complete stranger, a general, at this point the player should be facepalming so hard that they knock themselves out.

 

In New Vegas I had choices with consequences, I could express my character through those, in FO4 I had to do what I was told by people I knew nothing or cared little about no matter how idiotic the quest is, I never once had to think, I was wasn't offered any choices, that is not an RPG, it's a action game that's no different to Far Cry, GTA, Saints Row or Just Cause.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While some things may be 'dumbed down', it is different to a game franchise or whatever changing course. Just because a game is complex does not make it superior to everything else. Some of the simplest games can have extraordinary depth and be unique.

 

Technology changes things too. With Fallout/TES series for example... the games are basically taking a different direction and approaching the idea of an 'role playing game' from another angle. Whereas before the game had to cope with being a much more solitary experience and would have to contain more details so as to immerse you in the world. Now we have a global modding scene, multi-player online co-op, in-game community chat and visuals/sounds that can rival some films. In this particular case the trade off has been character development and levelling systems in favour of real-time combat and the opportunities of creating 'real' virtual settlements with other players from around the world. It's still role play but it is just different and requires a different set of skills to play.

 

Now whether one likes the changes in direction or whether they think a series has improved also comes down to taste. Personally I don't like the change in direction of some franchises, with Final Fantasy being a personal heartbreaker... just how can it all go so wrong??? But what is true for one example is not true across the board and a great deal of the time it goes on a game by game basis. Neither do I believe it has anything to do with what platform it is on or what controller you use - a flight simulator is not automatically better than a strategy game just because it uses every key on the board as opposed to just a mouse, besides they are very different experiences with room for ingenuity (Black and White mouse gestures, for example). Games are different and it is about how creative and passionate the developers are (also sometimes how much money and time they have - too little OR too much)

 

Looking at the bigger picture there will always be more rubbish than gold, so are the way of things in music, movies, literature or even actual rubbish and gold. But like the saying also goes, one person's rubbish is another's treasure, and I am kinda glad because its only then that true brilliance and ingenuity can exist.

 

 

 

They're not approaching role playing from another angle, they're actively removing role playing from their titles. Fallout 4 is not an RPG, it's an action adventure game set in something that looks like the Fallout universe, it's closer to Far Cry than it is to the previous titles.

 

 

Its not a traditional RPG no, but these things are not always so easily defined or categorised. Like with music genres, a lot of music can fit into a lot of different categories. Whether its music or games, I try to take things on a case by case basis - just because I like rock doesn't mean I like ALL rock, its the same with games.

 

My point with games like Fallout is that the role you are playing is a very different from before, if not an actual complete overhaul of how the game is to be approached and played. Some may prefer it, some may dislike it but that alone doesn't make something objectively bad. In this case, yes it might, but my point was more that just because that may be true in this case, it doesn't mean it is the case for everything.

 

Selling something as being something it is not... well now that is perhaps a whole other debate!

 

 

It's not a role playing game at all, you're playing a preset character put on a predefined path with no choice but to follow it, yes you can wonder around and look at things but you can do that in any open world game. You can't define your characters through your actions because the lack of a reputation system means the world does not react to anything you do, you can't define your character through skills because there aren't any and you can't define your character through dialogue because it's so limited. You have no choice but to roleplay as a concerned parent because that's all the game will let you do, choices in quests usually come down to do it now or do it later.

 

Let's compare the opening of New Vegas to the opening of FO4....

 

In New Vegas after leaving chargen the first thing you're likely to come across is a stand off in the pub, the bar owner and an ex con squaring up to each other, as soon as that is finished you can ask the bar owner in depth about what is going on, you can speak to other people in the bar, get their opinions and get to know them, you can then go down the road and get the ex cons side of things, as this point you get a choice, you can help the town or you can help the obvious bad guys, there will be consequences for this choice so you should think before acting. Let's say you decide to help the town, you're then tasked with getting people together and equipping them, here your skills come into play, a good Barter level will get you a discount on armour, your Speech skill can get Trudy to help, Explosives will net you dynamite from Pete ect. Once the fight is over you've made friends and enemies, who the friends are and who the enemies will be a result of a choice you made. At this early stage you've set out what sort of character you will play.

 

Now FO4, the first actual quest is in Concord, you arrive there to find these people under attack, complete strangers, of course this being a Bethesda game you won't be allowed to speak to the bad guys, they're hostile and attack you on sight. At this point you're asked to help these people, this is where you get a typical Bethesda choice, do it now or do it later. Anyway you go in and once again you have no choice but to fight the bad guys, once through them you get to speak to whatever his name is and this is where is the facepalming starts. You're asked to go onto the roof, put on power armour, rip a minigun from a Vertibird and go all Rambo on the bad guys, this is especially hilarious if you're playing a female character who is supposed to be a suburban housewife. With that done you return to whatever his name is and he pats you on the head for being so heroic, at this point you may be thinking "I like your gun" and if you were playing as a selfish or evil character you'd kill him and take it, sadly you're not allowed to do that, no matter how rounds you put into this guy he will always get up again and not be too bothered about what you've done. After that you go up the road with him where he makes you, a complete stranger, a general, at this point the player should be facepalming so hard that they knock themselves out.

 

In New Vegas I had choices with consequences, I could express my character through those, in FO4 I had to do what I was told by people I knew nothing or cared little about, I never once had to think, I was wasn't offered any choices, that is not an RPG, it's a action game that's no different to Far Cry, GTA, Saints Row or Just Cause.

 

 

 

I haven't played the game but thought as much (partly why I didn't buy it). This is why I wanna know what the deal will be on modding before I splash out in these hard times (other reason I didn't buy it)

 

I know what you're saying and I am not disputing any of it, but perhaps I am not explaining what I mean very clearly. Basically, what used to be a part of the game is now essentially up to the player/modder to create and add. So all the things that used to be part of the game is now up to the 'community' to add. Pfft yeah its perhaps lazy and offloads a lot of work, may even be questionable business practice BUT if it can be pulled off (and I am not putting any bets on it yet) then it may be a game changer - quite literally.

 

A lot of this is ifs buts and maybes. however that is the lie of the land as I see it. Given the right tools and incentive then Fallout 4 could literally be any game you wanted it to be puzzle, shooter, zombie, adventure, strategy (... list goes on)

 

But it all remains to be seen, its early days yet anyway but I'm using my choice to consume as the only bargaining chip I have :D

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While some things may be 'dumbed down', it is different to a game franchise or whatever changing course. Just because a game is complex does not make it superior to everything else. Some of the simplest games can have extraordinary depth and be unique.

 

Technology changes things too. With Fallout/TES series for example... the games are basically taking a different direction and approaching the idea of an 'role playing game' from another angle. Whereas before the game had to cope with being a much more solitary experience and would have to contain more details so as to immerse you in the world. Now we have a global modding scene, multi-player online co-op, in-game community chat and visuals/sounds that can rival some films. In this particular case the trade off has been character development and levelling systems in favour of real-time combat and the opportunities of creating 'real' virtual settlements with other players from around the world. It's still role play but it is just different and requires a different set of skills to play.

 

Now whether one likes the changes in direction or whether they think a series has improved also comes down to taste. Personally I don't like the change in direction of some franchises, with Final Fantasy being a personal heartbreaker... just how can it all go so wrong??? But what is true for one example is not true across the board and a great deal of the time it goes on a game by game basis. Neither do I believe it has anything to do with what platform it is on or what controller you use - a flight simulator is not automatically better than a strategy game just because it uses every key on the board as opposed to just a mouse, besides they are very different experiences with room for ingenuity (Black and White mouse gestures, for example). Games are different and it is about how creative and passionate the developers are (also sometimes how much money and time they have - too little OR too much)

 

Looking at the bigger picture there will always be more rubbish than gold, so are the way of things in music, movies, literature or even actual rubbish and gold. But like the saying also goes, one person's rubbish is another's treasure, and I am kinda glad because its only then that true brilliance and ingenuity can exist.

 

 

 

They're not approaching role playing from another angle, they're actively removing role playing from their titles. Fallout 4 is not an RPG, it's an action adventure game set in something that looks like the Fallout universe, it's closer to Far Cry than it is to the previous titles.

 

 

Its not a traditional RPG no, but these things are not always so easily defined or categorised. Like with music genres, a lot of music can fit into a lot of different categories. Whether its music or games, I try to take things on a case by case basis - just because I like rock doesn't mean I like ALL rock, its the same with games.

 

My point with games like Fallout is that the role you are playing is a very different from before, if not an actual complete overhaul of how the game is to be approached and played. Some may prefer it, some may dislike it but that alone doesn't make something objectively bad. In this case, yes it might, but my point was more that just because that may be true in this case, it doesn't mean it is the case for everything.

 

Selling something as being something it is not... well now that is perhaps a whole other debate!

 

 

It's not a role playing game at all, you're playing a preset character put on a predefined path with no choice but to follow it, yes you can wonder around and look at things but you can do that in any open world game. You can't define your characters through your actions because the lack of a reputation system means the world does not react to anything you do, you can't define your character through skills because there aren't any and you can't define your character through dialogue because it's so limited. You have no choice but to roleplay as a concerned parent because that's all the game will let you do, choices in quests usually come down to do it now or do it later.

 

Let's compare the opening of New Vegas to the opening of FO4....

 

In New Vegas after leaving chargen the first thing you're likely to come across is a stand off in the pub, the bar owner and an ex con squaring up to each other, as soon as that is finished you can ask the bar owner in depth about what is going on, you can speak to other people in the bar, get their opinions and get to know them, you can then go down the road and get the ex cons side of things, as this point you get a choice, you can help the town or you can help the obvious bad guys, there will be consequences for this choice so you should think before acting. Let's say you decide to help the town, you're then tasked with getting people together and equipping them, here your skills come into play, a good Barter level will get you a discount on armour, your Speech skill can get Trudy to help, Explosives will net you dynamite from Pete ect. Once the fight is over you've made friends and enemies, who the friends are and who the enemies will be a result of a choice you made. At this early stage you've set out what sort of character you will play.

 

Now FO4, the first actual quest is in Concord, you arrive there to find these people under attack, complete strangers, of course this being a Bethesda game you won't be allowed to speak to the bad guys, they're hostile and attack you on sight. At this point you're asked to help these people, this is where you get a typical Bethesda choice, do it now or do it later. Anyway you go in and once again you have no choice but to fight the bad guys, once through them you get to speak to whatever his name is and this is where is the facepalming starts. You're asked to go onto the roof, put on power armour, rip a minigun from a Vertibird and go all Rambo on the bad guys, this is especially hilarious if you're playing a female character who is supposed to be a suburban housewife. With that done you return to whatever his name is and he pats you on the head for being so heroic, at this point you may be thinking "I like your gun" and if you were playing as a selfish or evil character you'd kill him and take it, sadly you're not allowed to do that, no matter how rounds you put into this guy he will always get up again and not be too bothered about what you've done. After that you go up the road with him where he makes you, a complete stranger, a general, at this point the player should be facepalming so hard that they knock themselves out.

 

In New Vegas I had choices with consequences, I could express my character through those, in FO4 I had to do what I was told by people I knew nothing or cared little about, I never once had to think, I was wasn't offered any choices, that is not an RPG, it's a action game that's no different to Far Cry, GTA, Saints Row or Just Cause.

 

 

 

I haven't played the game but thought as much (partly why I didn't buy it). This is why I wanna know what the deal will be on modding before I splash out in these hard times (other reason I didn't buy it)

 

I know what you're saying and I am not disputing any of it, but perhaps I am not explaining what I mean very clearly. Basically, what used to be a part of the game is now essentially up to the player/modder to create and add. So all the things that used to be part of the game is now up to the 'community' to add. Pfft yeah its perhaps lazy and offloads a lot of work, may even be questionable business practice BUT if it can be pulled off (and I am not putting any bets on it yet) then it may be a game changer - quite literally.

 

A lot of this is ifs buts and maybes. however that is the lie of the land as I see it. Given the right tools and incentive then Fallout 4 could literally be any game you wanted it to be puzzle, shooter, zombie, adventure, strategy (... list goes on)

 

But it all remains to be seen, its early days yet anyway but I'm using my choice to consume as the only bargaining chip I have :D

 

 

I wish I hadn't brought it. :-(