Father, Shaun, and the Institute

[JuJooGuppy]

The 10 yr old Kelogg had with him was the Synth child Shaun, not the real Shaun.

[Athanasa]

I read all four pages as well. I found I don't have near the intellect needed to keep up with the conversation. Please, bare with me on this. You meet with Valentine & through his deductive reasoning, he comes to the conclusion that the kidnapper was Kellogg. Kellogg, a man both he & Ellie knew as buying the shack in DC & having a ten year old boy with him. Now Valentine would certainly say that that was fifty years ago, but unless Ellie is a synth too, she's much to young to remember fifty years ago. So, it seems to me that this happened more recently. Did "Father" allow Kellogg to take synth Shawn out on field trips or what? Doctor Amari said that the memory of Kellogg & Shawn in the DC shack was more recent. Somehow I don't think we're getting the whole picture here. As Desi would say "Lucy, you got some 'splainen to do!".

 

That wasn't Real Shaun, that's Synth Kid Shaun. Otherwise, a legit line of reasoning.

[Jasemyne]

For me to understand Father as the protagonist's true child never really was a problem 'cause from the intro alone I knew the skin color of baby Shaun, a mixture between the brown protagonist who is of my kind and Nat, an Afro American. Baby Shaun was thus almost as black as his father, but only almost and, he lacked any 'negroid' facial features. Apparently Bethesda has an 'either or'-routine implemented in the automatic facial construction of the baby. Consequently, I'd have taken a white Father that calls himself my son for a really bad joke by Bethesda. But Father showed up with baby Shawn's skin color (like the synthesized Shawn boy), a somewhat dark Latino. Everything looked just fine, especially because Father ordered the release of the protagonist from the cryogenic tank by an all-too human reason - he wanted to see and talk to his mother at least once in an isolated life that inevitably has reached its irreversible end. Too late for technical spare parts that'd increase his lifetime as was still the case with Mr Kellog, a human that turned into a cyborg long before the protagonist shoots him. And cyborgs don't age, they simply shut down when the time comes for their spare parts. Though that was at a different time under a different Institute's management. Cancer always wins at the end of the day, that's Bethesda's sad message.

The reason for the old management to kidnap baby Shaun is likewise very simply - after some 150 years that followed the nuclear war it became apparent that ghoulification isn't the only human mutation in the Wasteland, reduced fertility (we know from Chernobyl) isn't just a temporary and regional problem for young men in an all-out war, it gets permanent and it is everywhere. So, the most precious thing in such a negatively mutating environment is what? Right, it's defrosted and living non-mutated genetic prewar material, necessary for any repair program one might have in mind to avoid the point of no return for an increasingly infertile population. Now you understand why the protagonist is called 'the backup' by Mr. Kellog huh.

 

Have fun!

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jasemyne

[Skitkjell]

Codsworth saying "Well, a little over 210 years in fact..." in the beginning really bothers me. However it is possible that he can mean 260 years... what do I know.

[TheVampireDante]

Depends on when you were unfrozen the first time when you witnessed the abduction/murder.

 

Codsworth's rough "210" statement might be right and you were first woke up at the 150 year mark.

[Moraelin]

You find out the exact years in the Institute, so no need to guess. Shaun was unfrozen in 2227, i.e., about 150 years after the war. You get unfrozen in 2287, 60 years later.

[TheVampireDante]

Remind me to read those notes at some point.

[Moraelin]

I think it was actually in the first dialogue with Father. But admittedly it's been more than a month since the previous time I spoke to him, and I'm not really in a hurry in this playthrough. So my memory may be wrong on the topic. Oh, for a cyborg implant, like Kellogg had.

[tomomi1922]

The biggest glaring thought I had when Kellog said "the Old man", he may be referring to different people, from the Vault 111 to his memory at his house with child Shaun. But to go the other way, I suppose it is not hard to fabricate the records in the Institute once you run the Institute. But I start to beg the notion why Father has to go through such length to make the Sole Survivor his parent publicly, whether it is true or not. It is indeed the Sole Survivor is resourceful that he/she figures out the way in, can face up to any Courser, and disposed of Kellog easily. But the entry was not really stealthy as they knew right away when Sole Survivor teleported in. Father could have anticipated this move and set a trap. I don't think, even with the best equipment and Power Armor, the Sole Survivor can withstand some 10+ gattling laser turrets waiting in the ready.

And with 3rd gen Coursers, they shouldn't be as desperate for a capable agent as previously with Kellog.

 

In their defense about all the questionable things they did ... it's a harsh world out there. People outside are dividing up and killing each other. And it's not always black and white to have good vs bad people. Everyone is own their own to survive and one point of another may have considered going bandit (Raiders). If we listened to the things Raiders said, some of these guys could have been just some struggling settlers turning raiders. They feel bad about it, and promising themselves this will be their last hit, etc... Of course, if the sole survivor is there to hear this convo, there is not much chance for these raiders to get out alive. Thus to achieve their objectives, Institute has to do quite many extreme things. We are judging them, all of them, with our current society: peaceful, lawful, and prosperous. People die everyday in Wastelands to all kind of things. Your good friend may turn on you because he is too hungry or desperate for your caps. It's quite a lawless world, and even Diamond City shows that. The security can only do so much. Shoot first, question later.

 

And in reality, your targeting system will not simply label someone "Raider". Actually, worse if it does. So some poor soul can pick up some gear, or made some gear himself, maybe did kill someone in a fight for a food source. And Sole Survivor comes through, and rely 100% on the targeting system to cast a death sentence on this guy and shamelessly kill him. As far as the other guy concerns, the Sole Survivor is another raider. When the world is tough, people talk tough and make tough decisions. Shoot first and question later. So in a way, the Sole Survivor isn't exactly a good person to begin with, due to circumstances. So it is hard to simply hold all factions to a holy standard.

[Moraelin]

Father DID anticipate your coming in, and had already sent emails around about it, if you read the Institute terminals. He also knows that you've already had contact with the Railroad, and again informed the department heads about it.

 

So, yeah, the whole "surprise" encounter was scripted to heck and back, so to speak.