Is it just me?

[JimboUK]

The map density in Fo4 does mean there's more "stuff" in it than Skyrim, but like noted above with Finch Farm, the compacted areas lead to some serious problems. Despite that, I've been quite happy with most of the game, in comparison to Skyrim, in all but one major area...

 

The game doesn't feel alive. Nothing changes or reacts... Nothing like NV's random faction ambushes if you piss someone off; no random wandering interesting NPCs... cities hardly have anything in them; nothing like Skyrim's huge selection of guild questlines... there's tons of locations and total-square-mileage to explore (if we're including interior and vertical space), but so little actually worth finding.

 

I think the lack of a reputation/karma system is what makes the world feel unresponsive, Skyrim had the same problem, nothing you did in game made any real difference, it leads to a world that is no more than a movie set. In FO4 I amused myself by shooting down Brotherhood Vertibirds and the Brotherhood didn't mind, I did it in front of them, survivors of my antics would even say hello as they walked away from the flaming wreckage.

 

I gave up after 40 hours, there was no point in doing anything away from the main quest and to be honest I had to force myself to play that.

[ranggiana]

 

I think the lack of a reputation/karma system is what makes the world feel unresponsive, Skyrim had the same problem, nothing you did in game made any real difference, it leads to a world that is no more than a movie set.

 

This.

This is the core of the problem. Which is also a plague on other open world games. But none so far as apparent as in Skyrim and FO4

In FO3 I remember fondly, I could either be an enemy to either The Regulator or Talon Merc depending on my Karma. And some NPC reacted strongly. I haven't played FNV, but keep hearing the Karma affects the game greatly.

So far, we don't know why Bethesda decided to remove this system. Because it was too problematic with protagonist allignment as parent looking for their missing child, perhaps?

Edited December 20, 2015 by ranggiana

[JimboUK]

 

 

I think the lack of a reputation/karma system is what makes the world feel unresponsive, Skyrim had the same problem, nothing you did in game made any real difference, it leads to a world that is no more than a movie set.

 

This.

This is the core of the problem. Which is also a plague on other open world games. But none so far as apparent as in Skyrim and FO4

In FO3 I remember fondly, I could either be an enemy to either The Regulator or Talon Merc depending on my Karma. And some NPC reacted strongly. I haven't played FNV, but keep hearing the Karma affects the game greatly.

So far, we don't know why Bethesda decided to remove this system. Because it was too problematic with protagonist allignment as parent looking for their missing child, perhaps?

 

 

NV has a proper reputation system that tracks your relationship with each faction, if they like you enough they'll give you a safe house or let you call them in as support, piss them off enough and they'll not only be hostile but they'll actually ambush you out on the road. The system makes the world feel alive, things you do make a difference.

[Moraelin]

I think he meant total surface, rather than area of a rectangle you can fit it in. Well, I'm not sure if the metro in FO3 actually had more surface than NV, but you certainly spent more time if you wanted to run through all of it, than you spent running between places in NV. Let's face it, unless someone is obsessive compulsive about visiting every square metre, it's lengths they experience, rather than surface.

 

The big sandstormy desert in the middle of NV or the big empty snowy hills in the northern part of Skyrim for example really contributed almost nothing to the travel times. Nor much to the sense of exploration, since you could see for a mile in all directions. It just didn't carry the same sense of not knowing what's around the corner as the metro in FO3 or some of the multi-story buildings in FO4.

 

In that sense, the metro system was a more EFFICIENT use of the space than having a big empty desert in the middle.

 

I mean, imagine that basically pay someone to make a subsection of 10,000 square metres (or let's say yards for you Imperials.) If you just make a big square area out of it, that's barely 100x100m. Longest you can travel through it is less than 150m, if you take a diagonal, and there's not even much exploration or sense of space, since you see from all corners to all other corners. There's no reason to actually go through every single square or anything. But make it a 4m wide tunnel, and now the same 10,000 square metres means two kilometres and a half (a little over a mile and a half for you Imperials) of running along and exploring. A maze is just a more effective use of the same surface than just having a big flat space with everything spread out.

 

Which just brings me back to what I was saying all along that just raw surface of a rectangle on the map is a meaningless metric.

 

That said, about your question, well, I wouldn't have a problem with smaller maps per se. What's slightly bothering me since NV or, for that matter, Skyrim too, is pretending that the small map is a whole province. It doesn't feel like one. Basically in FO3 I could suspend disbelief when it claimed to be basically DC, especially with all the running through tunnels making it seem bigger. But Nevada or MA are much bigger states. I mean, DC has an area of just short of 70 square miles. MA is over 10,000 square miles. Even taking into account that it's not the whole map of MA, but just the urban area from a bit north of Salem to a bit south of Quincy, it still should be about 10 times more surface than FO3, and it just doesn't feel that big.

 

Basically make the map smaller if you want, but don't claim that 2 km are 30 km (from Salem to Quincy.) I'd be happier if this map size were just, say, Boston and suburbs. Still not 1 to 1 scale, but I'd find that more conducive to suspension of disbelief.

[Indigoblade]

I feel like the map is small but for a different reason. A good 1/4th of the map is water, areas that cannot be played like the rest of the game. If they removed that entire coast with land, and filled it to the brim like the areas near DC, we would have a vastly different feeling map.

 

You can really feel how the water cuts you off when you get the southern part of map where the ocean takes up almost half of the entire area. I really do hope they decide to add in something in that water, at least something to do down there

[JagMaker]

Bethesda wrongly failed with the scale of the characters and objects relative to the territory, so this way it seems small.

 

To understand how it is - imagine that you cross the road - a few steps, and you are on the other side.

And now imagine that you are the size of a roach. The same road will seem to you huge, and its passage will take about an hour.

 

If you reduce the size of all objects, houses, characters - so that they are equal relative to each other - the territory will increase. The distance between them will increase, the streams will become rivers, cities will become big cities, forests will look like forests etc.

 

But Bethesda failed with it.

 

If u want to see twice bigger fallout 4 map - go CK and reduce size of ur character twice.