Fallout vs. Witcher

[WursWaldo]

People aren't forgetting about TW3. ProjektRed is still working on dlcs. I've just finished my second play through and I still haven't scratched the surface of what the game has to offer. Transversely I played FO4 for about 100 hrs and I've seen everything I care to see and I completed one of the two possible outcomes for the main quest.

 

Bethesda fans keep saying things like 'FO4 is a framework for modding' and the now infamous 'Mods will fix it'. FO4 wasn't packaged or marketed as a 'modding framework'. According to Todd Howard and Pete Hines the game is complete. The elephant in the room is Bethesda's lack of technical innovation and their use of an engine that was outdated when they released FO3. Mods won't 'fix' that. Games are rated and judged by industry standards. There is a reason why TW3 was GOTY and FO4 wasn't. It wasn't 'hate' or anything else Bethesda fans claim; it was because TW3 is a modern game and FO4 isn't. Being able to add mods to FO4 doesn't make it a better game than TW3 or even a good game in its own right. It simply means users can add their own content to it. 'FO4 is a modding framework' and 'Mods will fix it' are not only fan justifications for a lackluster game, but also an admission that the game is in need of serious help. But there are two things FO4 mods won't fix; the outdated engine and the Zenimax/Bethesda corporate attitude that produced FO4 to begin with. If mods will make it better and it was meant to be a framework why wasn't the editor released on the same day as the game? If Bethesda had done that there wouldn't be so many discussions like this.

 

And to be honest no one knows what FO4 modding will really be until the CK is released and Bethesda.net becomes a reality. People are already getting a small dose with the FO4 updates sabotaging hacked together mods. Monetized modding, forced drms to protect and control console modding, changes in EULA terms, Bethesda.net controlling it all; those are real possibilities. I saw a post on reddit by a regular person but what he/she said has stuck with me. "FO4 modding isn't going to be what people think it is." I think TW3 is a better game based on what I purchased, not on the potential to mod it.

 

EDIT:

If Bethesda is like wine, the grapes for FO4 were harvested in 2010 and they fermented and aged for almost 6 years. Bad wine doesn't get better with age and the only thing to make it palatable is to mix it with Sprite or SevenUp (mods) and make home made wine coolers. :pinch:

Edited January 31, 2016 by WursWaldo

[Lisnpuppy]

I do not yet have Witcher 3 yet so I can't speak for specifics on that. I do however agree with much of your post, Wurswaldo. I don't think people should look at a high dollar, prime-time game like Fallout 4 and say, Mods will fix it. It is one thing for mods to perhaps fix things that the developer just didn't consider game breaking, or mods which are made for opinions of a vision on the game. I am super glad the modders do fix many, many things and make more content and all that. But that should really be the icing on the cake..not the cake. I'm not sure I would buy a Beth game that was not moddable. Sad but true.

 

I also am not begrudging all the hard work I am sure many, many people put into this game on Beth's side (any game.) But at some point, someone made a decision that this is the day we are releasing this and we find this acceptable to release.

 

If a developer have meme's about mods fixing things or all the bugs they have....maybe there is a bit of a issue?

[Bloodina]

I never liked Fallout, which made me not like a lot of Skyrim, Bethesda should have kept the old Elder Scrolls system.

I prefer The Witcher, the universe is much more interesting and the medieval world pleases me more.

Fallout 2 was the only one I really enjoyed.

The Fallout combat system is better in some ways, the story does not surprise me too much and the characters are not very realistic or charismatic, The Witcher has memorable characters and an incredible story, but the combat system is not the best.

In graphical question I do not give that important.

Of course, the books of the witchers are as good as the games.

(Sorry for my bad english)

[KaiaMaiden]

Something else to consider as to why TW3 modding hasn't taken off like Bethesda modding does is a need for mods. In reality some of the most popular Nexus mods are cosmetics for female characters; nude replacers, better face textures and so on. Those sorts of things aren't really needed to begin with to make a game good but TW3 already has them packaged with the game. When I look at the personality NPCs in TW3 I don't see room for improvement. Yennifer, Triss, Keira, Jutta look great as is.

 

 

And yet pretty much the only only mods for TW3 are retextures, boob enhancers, and other things to make the characters/game prettier...

 

I've played a few hundred hours of Witcher 3, and I played 1 & 2 before. Story and characterwise I thought W3 wasn't as interesting as the first two. Ciri wasn't someone I cared about in the slightest, or Yennifer for that matter, and I've only done one and a bit plays of the main story because it was just boring doing the same things. On the other hand the first of the expansions, Hearts of Stone, was loads of fun and makes it possible to play a free game exploring the world before getting to the right level for HoS.

 

One of the problems for Witcher 3 modders is that every time CDPR patch the game, it pretty much breaks all the mods other than the retextures so anything useful like the one that alters the horrible levelling system, or provides a console, needs to be rewritten. I was thinking about finishing my 3rd B&W run but patch 1.12 came out and I just didn't care enough to spend hours fixing it all again. At this point the next time I touch it will be in the run up to Blood&Wine being released when I'll have to go through a long list of repairs I expect.

[WursWaldo]

It's no surprise a modded TW3 is unplayable after an update. I don't use TW3 mods as I don't think the game 'needs' mods; though I agree I dislike the leveling system as much as I dislike how Bethesda does them. Official updates sabotaging games is nothing new. I have had that unpleasant experience with every Bethesda game I've played since Oblivion. I don't think mods no longer working after an update is anything to be shocked about. Mad and upset is understandable though.

When I first played Skyrim it was a vanilla game. I finished the main quest, the College of Winterhold and the side quest we all get along the way. I had the game updates disabled in Steam and I enabled them when the CK was released. It rendered my game an unplayable crash-fest. I experienced the same thing with Oblivion and Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles. It happened again with FO3 and Broken Steel. It happened yet again with NewVegas, with the added misery of the updates sabotaging my somewhat stable game with every dlc.

After the CK update for Skyrim I uninstalled the game and didn't play it for a year. After Bethesda was done messing with the game I reinstalled it and I didn't have any issues other than the ones everyone complains about. Then there was monetized modding scam and the CK update that rendered my game unplayable until I agreed to a forced EULA change I didn't get prior notice of. That sneaky trick actually broke a Steam dll and not only did I have to reinstall Steam, but all of the games I play in my library. I'm surprised I wasn't banned for the blistering email I sent them.

 

People are now complaining about FO4 being unplayable with mods after an update. They are acting like this is something new. :wacko:

 

Look at it from Bethesda's standpoint. The FO4 EULA is very clear that users cannot decompile the files or reverse engineer the game, yet that is exactly what current modders are doing; they are hacking the game to get added content to work without an official editor. If anything monetized Skyrim modding taught them that they can't control the internet response and Bethesda.net will depend on mods and mod users to be viable. Since Bethesda very well can't contact Dark0ne and insist the hacked mods be removed they have one option; use updates to sabotage unauthorized and technically illegal mods they can't control. Todd Howard and his crew can't afford to alienate modders or mod users, but they also can't loose tentative control of a market they think they created to bilk console users for paid mods. I don't think that's a 'conspiracy theory' mentality on my part. It's what I would do if I wanted to control a market and drive customers to one source.

Edited February 3, 2016 by WursWaldo

[dragonslayer2k12]

Just look at what steam did to counter strike and mods. There is your modding future right there all dark and shitty just waiting to overwhelm us.

 

I can't get into the witcher series I just can't identify with some oddball euro guy with a mop for a head and lack of first person camera. I can't change his appearance or his name and he has a voice so to play that game I am already stuck in a rut just like failout 4. Both games just suck, forced narratives and the writing is either confusing or really terrible. The F4 CK will probably REQUIRE an account at beth site and registration of your game serials too.

 

One thing I noticed about failout 4 was how fast I could slap a settlement together once I decided on some standards for things. I would always build the same flop house the same way, defense towers placed in corners and at least two gates for in and out unless it was a small or restricted space. They have already solved the basic problems with what a player home or player area would look like. It will look like whatever the player wants so that kind of mod is not needed anymore. Anything they put in failout 4 they will also put in the next ES game so if that game has any single player aspect at all aka player houses or player areas then it will be the same thing. The armor system will be the same and the dialogue system will be the same.

 

I am sure they will spend even less money and time on dialogue for the next ES game too so garrus and belethor will be the voice of even more npcs. They could save more money if they forced them to imitate females voices too.

So the next ES game will have some great feature improvements over skyrim but the story will surely suck ass and the dialogue will suck and you get the idea. They are doing less and less while expecting more from us both money and mods. Hey if nobody stands up and says enough of this s#*!! then nothing happens.

 

If the witcher series made any basic sense at all it might be interesting enough to play but nope. I don't want to ride a dam horse all the time and carry around a dead griffin head on my horse either. Where is the player home? Where is the player storage? Why can't this guy get a haircut? The list goes on for that game it is just confusing. At least I found out if I really wanted to bother with dark souls or not. At least that game lets you know at some point that overall this kind of crap you don't like is gonna get worse so either like it or hate it aka those dam flying pokemons about half way through the game. so at least from software can figure out how to go one way or another with their story and direction. These other companies just appear mysterious and greedy or confusing in the case of witcher series.