How human are synths?

[TheValiantSoul]

Nobody here can claim to have an answer simply because we humans don't yet know that consciousness is; and that is the key issue here.

 

Basically everything else that is going on is just genetic coding and memory storage.

[dragonslayer2k12]

Did you ever watch any of the ghost in the shell series or movies? That stuff blows this synth writing out of the water completely. At this point the synths just look like fancy legos to me lol. I don't know why I just ended up thinking of them as just fancy legos that are too comical and simple compared to other ideas about such things. I think I get that impression from watching them being assembled.

[TheVampireDante]

I don't know why I just ended up thinking of them as just fancy legos that are too comical and simple compared to other ideas about such things. I think I get that impression from watching them being assembled.

 

Reminded me of this:

 

http://dinosaurdracula.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/79.jpg

[Alano69]

 

That why does nick prays, flirts, gets insulted and glory does the RR tasks with so much passion?

Nick Valentine was human before to be synth.

 

Nah, it something they born with, not drugs and dady problems.

Do you feel the difference when you wear medium raider armor and without, after taking a bullet ? It's the same for raiders. Raiders aren't like the orcs in LOTR ; born in pain. They are human, but crazy because of the hard drugs they take all the time and since a while. May be since they are in their mother's belly.

[Boombro]

Doesn't mean his memories drive him to do those things. They are just memories.

 

Also look at ones in the RR quest line.

 

Glory has no other human memories, but she joined the RR instead of fleeing the C.W.

 

There are ones in institute who want to escape even and the mission is to help. They want freedom and quiet life. They don't have human memories. There is also one who became a raider.

 

Everyone should stop taking about feelings, even animals have them. The real question is do they have humans captivity of free will? Yes they do, they show it many times in the game.

 

Why are you taking about orcs and raiders? How does this relate to my replay?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Boombro

[Raycheetah]

As for Type 3 Synths and their capacity for feelings merely being a programmed response, I think that the definitive answer can be found in Curie's transformation scene. When Dr. Amari performs her post-procedure evaluation, she asks Curie (now in a new, Synth body) to remember a vivid memory. Curie recounts the death of her human scientist mentor, and, to her total surprise, experiences feelings entirely unknown to her, and outside her original programming as a robot. The Institute didn't put those emotions there, and the former Synth personality which had previously occupied that body would have had no reason to feel grief over Curie's memories, even if elements of her old personality persisted after the failure to reset her.

 

Synths experience emotions, as well as physical pain. They also experience all the biological functions of humans (except, of course, actual reproduction), or they would be easy to detect among humans. =^[.]^=

[Moraelin]

Doesn't mean his memories drive him to do those things. They are just memories.

Actually, from a neuroscience point of view, your memories are EXACTLY what drives you to do things. You flip a switch to turn on the lights because that's an association that's very strong in your brain. You obey a streetlight or not, based on how many connections involve positive outcomes and how strong. Etc.

 

As I said several times, taking a decisions is just a matter of a massively parallel voting process in your brain. You can even watch it on MRI.

 

Even without getting into the science part, think this: you're not acting randomly. You're an intelligent and rational being. You learn from your successes and you learn from your failure, and if you're really smart also from those of the people around you. You learn to do what works, and to avoid repeating what was an epic fail.

 

Even in the game, you hit VATS once or twice and it shows you mines, you learn to do it again. Because you're an intelligent being. You saw that working, and you learn to do it again. Where would that decision come, if not from recent memories? There is nothing in your personality that says you're going to decide to use VATS more. There was no VATS when the species evolved. There was no VATS when you were educated by your parents.

 

There is no such thing as some disconnect between memories and decisions, unless you're flipping a coin for the decisions like Harvey Dent.

[Moraelin]

And even for Nick, he tells you for example that he wears that private dick outfit because he has memories of people wearing that kind of outfit in that kind of job. He's driven to avenge a certain girl, if you do his quest, because he has the real cop's memories about that murder. Etc.

[Alano69]

Memory takes part to our behaviour and

 

drives you to do things

for sure. The purpose of the whole main mission is to find our lost son, and we know we have lost him because we remember that somebody took it while we were in the "fridge". And we are human.

 

We don't know much about Glory's past. Can't tell why/how she decided to join the RR.

 

For the

 

ones in institute who want to escape

i don't know how it's possible for synths to need freedom. Either you're right and synths can experience the will for freedom, or those synths are in fact humans working for the synths, like Dr Madison Li.

 

 

Curie recounts the death of her human scientist mentor, and, to her total surprise, experiences feelings entirely unknown to her

Type 3 synths are created from human bones and flesh :

https://youtu.be/Vp9Fgmx5Xks#t=13m50s

and when you feel the pain it's because you have nerves/sensitive captors in your flesh that transmit electric impulsions (mVolts) to your brain which will response with a reflex to avoid more pain. So type 3 synths are partly human, but they aren't 100% human because a big part of humans isn't there (the brain and the synth skin). And other reasons like they don't grow up from baby to adult.

The "feelings" they seem to have isn't a feeling : the electric impulsions are still received by electronic components, but they are interpreted with 0 or 1. Here is how their CPU and software interprets these electric impulsions :

function check_wires (w_num)
{
(...)
if (wire number 42 has received an electric signal > 20 mV) then (send a 40mv electric signal to wire number 4209) & (send an electric signal to the speaker with the sentence "this hurts");
(...)
}

I don't know which source code they use ; it's an example.

So the

 

feelings entirely unknown to her

that Curie experiences obviously come from the human parts of "her" new body. From robot to synth3.

 

 

Why are you taking about orcs and raiders? How does this relate to my replay?

because orcs aren't humans and raiders are. It was meant to explain why raiders can't feel the pain. (they are on drugs and have good protection like a helm)

Edited January 20, 2016 by Alano69

[Boombro]

 

Doesn't mean his memories drive him to do those things. They are just memories.

Actually, from a neuroscience point of view, your memories are EXACTLY what drives you to do things. You flip a switch to turn on the lights because that's an association that's very strong in your brain. You obey a streetlight or not, based on how many connections involve positive outcomes and how strong. Etc.As I said several times, taking a decisions is just a matter of a massively parallel voting process in your brain. You can even watch it on MRI.Even without getting into the science part, think this: you're not acting randomly. You're an intelligent and rational being. You learn from your successes and you learn from your failure, and if you're really smart also from those of the people around you. You learn to do what works, and to avoid repeating what was an epic fail.Even in the game, you hit VATS once or twice and it shows you mines, you learn to do it again. Because you're an intelligent being. You saw that working, and you learn to do it again. Where would that decision come, if not from recent memories? There is nothing in your personality that says you're going to decide to use VATS more. There was no VATS when the species evolved. There was no VATS when you were educated by your parents.There is no such thing as some disconnect between memories and decisions, unless you're flipping a coin for the decisions like Harvey Dent.

That was a cool read.

 

But I'm pretty sure you proved their ability to make decisions in that that comment alone.