German Nazi invasion

[JuJooGuppy]

The point of my post was more general, fyi. I was trying to point out that, I don't feel like what you are wanting to do is "wrong" or offensive, but at the same time, people will have radically different views on this subject matter. Thats all I was saying, just more wordy :P

I personally say go for it.

[tomomi1922]

The point of my post was more general, fyi. I was trying to point out that, I don't feel like what you are wanting to do is "wrong" or offensive, but at the same time, people will have radically different views on this subject matter. Thats all I was saying, just more wordy :tongue:

 

I personally say go for it.

 

Thanks. Didn't mean to sound rude, I think all these negative reactions from people made me jumpy. I am running into some problems with the texture stuff, and the main artist has not replied me about permission to use her uniform. (I presume it's a she)

 

Once I get something cool going, I will definitely post some screenshots. FO4 lets us spawn NPC, but all of them are naked with ... wrong heads (like male head fixed on female naked bodies) .... kinda make me going god mode solo to Raider territory to hunt them down for testing. God mode solo so I can freely take their damage while gawking at them. Maybe I should turn off AI so they can stop reacting at me.

 

And there aren't any area with A LOT of raiders heavily concentrated in 1 place for me to test.

[IglooGreenHouse]

Perhaps you would look on things differently if your family; mother, father, sisters and brothers; had been horribly tortured and killed by the Nazis. "I can straight out tell you I dislike what Hitler regime did" just don't cut it, kid. Grow up.

 

 

The Rabbit

So because someone wants to make something you find distateful they need to 'grow up'? What's the matter with you, you're on a forum concerning a game that depicts a nuclear apocalypse and you're telling people to not be offensive. Quit acting like a child who dosen't want to hear swear words.

[yerude]

Apart from your discussion about german history, if you intend implementing nazis into Fo4 this must be some kind of realistic AND funny setting both.

So first you have to analyse what is different in fo4 and the real world history, then use this clarification and try to adjust it to some european scenario.

So first whats different:

 

fo4:

- 1945 America was splitted into 13 commonwealths instead of the USA we know

- 2052 middle east raises price of oil, ressource conflicts are caused

- 2077 china invaded canada for its oil and get pushed back again by american army.

- 2077 as a result china declared the nuclear war called great war. (This date is no coincidence, it is a cummon date of post apocalyptic storys as Cyberpunk e.g.)

~ 2277-78 time where fallout4 series mostly take action. Most Vaultbreakouts are somewhere round about 100-250 years after the great war. In case of fo4 2278 i think. Dont blame me for +-5 years :P

- Fallout4 universe has gread abhorrence about communism.

- Nazis were never mentioned.

 

As i know, the second world war didnt happen. So actually there were no nazi fashism in the fallout universe. IF there would have been one, it wasnt mentioned. But the ressource problems have also influenced europe somehow.

Theoretically there could be fashists like the enclave or brotherhood of steel which is simply the same, but i dont think there are these typical religions we know.

In no Fallout title ever i remember was never talked about religion except some sects like the legion or the followers of atom. So i think neither christs or jews or anything else exists in this universe.

So the Nazis you want to have need to be some different kind of nazis. So i recommend to not call them nazis. (Because nazis is a word for german fashists, and in fallout4 it is simply impossible there would be german settlers around the commonwealth).

You could implement some anti communism sect (like the robots of the ship) which dresses themself in the same nazi outfits. There could be some equal symbol, maybe not exactly the same. Some kind of a hakenkreutz with maybe 3 hooks instead of 4. This sect must be some kind of fashists like the brotherhood of steel. Some organisation which hates mutants, hates ghouls, hates raiders, and they could also hate all none white people for some unimportant reason.

They could also be racists thinking the humanity is seperated in different ethnical races (this is already in this universe anyway). Well what could be realy realy funny (you want fallout to stay funny dont you?) Could be BLACK fashists.

So the people who wear these uniforms could hate white poeple instead. To make it even more stupid, some combination that doesnt realy exist something like black skin and green eyes. So they are only a few people looking for other black people with green eyes. this could be some part of recruiment mission for some greater task. Some idiocity also nazis had, somethink like finding the holy graal like the crusaders did.

Maybe you could find any good ideas yourself, i dont want to influence you too much since it is your idea and your mod. But i think the right mixture of a good and funny story will become enjoyable for everyone.

Nothing against jews, just the regular discrimination of some commonwealth people. Also they should have some kind of strict order. Militaristic organized and they should be different than the brotherhood of steel.

Maybe instead of collecting energyweapons and science stuff, they could collect culture like the nazis did (they collected alot art, music etc). Also they could reject energyweapons because the believe in some "strong manstop power, only heavy steel is good enough" which could state out the industry they worship. If you think about how the great war appeared and what problem nuclear weapons and energy weapons are, they could be some kind of coal approvals.

This would also be some kind of typical for early german history. So everyone will understand what kind of people you want to show without doing it in a very plump stupid way you may earn only critics about.

[tomomi1922]

I am not planning to go out of my way to create something brand new from scratch with immersive backstories and ... everything else. I thank you for the suggestions, I may be able to use a few. But here is the core:

 

- I want to make use of the content people have already made in regard to Nazi uniform.

- I believe the ONLY way any current institution would carry old 1900s Hitler's regime content is because they have a strong tie/origin with said regime.

- I believe FO4 alternate history took off right after WW2 as they did mention US dropping nuclear bombs onto Japan's soil (correct me if I am wrong).

- Thus, Hitler's regime did exist and did suffer defeat. My alternate history theory suggests that a few small groups of Hitler's followers did manage to escape Allies' encirclement.

- As with any group of believers, they would go in hiding to rebuild and await opportunity to reclaim Germany and rebuild their glorious empire.

 

I am not a Fallout history scholar, but I question the lack of mention with the Soviet Unions, the Europeans, Middle East, and Africa. As direct target of Chinese nuclear attack, there are still enough people who survived to live on 200+ years later populating the Common Wealth, I am sure the rest of the world did have survivors as well. And like the Enclave, the Nazi remnants in hiding probably survived almost unscathed. With 90% of world population gone, it pretty much even the playing field for this hidden away Nazi group to come out of hiding and rise again. At least they would be stupid not to try.

Nope, I didn't say there would be German settlers. They are not civilians, they are soldiers. In "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare", it suggests that, with clever underhand of a few high profile terrorists, Russia was led to believe US was behind a mass shooting in a Russian airport. Thus, with all the cry for payback from citizens, Russia responded to this supposed American's "act of war" by staging a US mass invasion. So there, Russian soldiers were everywhere right in DC area. Here I am not even suggesting a massive invasion, but since the US military is pretty much vaporized, it doesn't need a massive army for the Nazi to stage an invasion to the Common Wealth. Unfortunately, I intended for them to lose before FO4 story begins. So what we will see for this mod is not Nazi invasion, but the remains of their defeated army, hiding in buildings, waiting for communication from high command to proceed, or waiting to be extracted.

You suggested that the world only exists Chinese and American, no Jew, no German, no European .... Just because the game does not mention doesn't mean they don't exist. This is a 200 years after the apocalypse. It is already lucky people can still have food and clean water, and radio to listen to. I don't think global communication is possible (or easily accessible) that they can simply watch CNN (or BBC) for world news. So to note, Jewish is not a product of WW2, but this people existed thousands of years. Unless FO4 is written like a Final Fantasy where there is almost zero real world reference, where they ride giant yellow birds called Chocobo in lieu of horses, then introducing extra historical content into the game would be inappropriate.
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No way I am going to try to alter the perception of the Nazi by putting some people of color in their uniform to fight against white people. This is pretty twisted to even consider this route and will definitely open up a huge flame war, if anything. I will definitely avoid that. I see you are trying to steer me 100% clear with anything relating to "German" and suggest all kind of out of this world ideas. First, I am not a great mod creator, and second, I do not own an entire company full of game designers ready to work days and nights so I can create a DLC for FO4. It is not going to happen. Because if it is, I would be making my own game and start making earning money, instead of being on here talking about FO4.

[yerude]

Fo4 doesnt mention any global settings because the sea is radiated and radiation corrodes metal. So in this case the ships cannot cross the ocean because almost all ships are scrap.

Also in my imagination of fo4 there would be some kind of sea monsters. Fo4 is always crazy. Robots driving a ship with rockets, thats typical for fo4.

I dont say your mod wont work, of course not. I dont want to set you clear with any german beeings it is just not very fallout typical. Fo4 is only seperated in "american lifestyle" and more historical "comunism lifestyle" (which does not exist anymore). But you said for yourself your idea, it is more some kind of an own story for an own game. Something like Homefront where Korea invaded America. Or wolfenstein itself.

 

If you want to do it for fo4 hmm ... of course you are free you can do whatever you want but i just guess i am not the only one who believe this idea doesnt fit well to the fo4 universe.

I played Fallout1,2 Fallout tactics, Fo3, NV and Fo4. And in NONE of the games, nazis were part of any quest, holoband or somewhere else. Maybe there is no need for because the enclave is very similar to it. It is the self declared police, the order which want to recreate their own world. They are brutal and kill people which do not agree with their politics, militaristic and anti everything.

I mean, give the brotherhood of steel some nazi outfits and you are done with your mod. Call the rename the zeppelin to Hindeburg, rename the Brotherhood boss "Führer" and create new ranks. I mean, they already call themselves knights and paladins... they have the same medieval aligment than the real nazis. As i said earlier, nazis indetified with the crusaders and idolized old historian warriors like "Brunhilde" and other things like their castles. I mean, Wolfenstein already captured all these elements very intensely. Maybe this is why so many people like it. I mean there must be a reason why so many people, not germans, sympathize with them. Ever child likes medieval heroism.

 

It is just i dont think your idea is very easy to do very well because the setting is difficult on its own. If you dont want to earn shitstorm your mod must have some great story. So you have to wait for geck, could create own sidequests. Doesnt need to be so many. If i would like to do this kind of mod like you described it so far, i would just do an brotherhood of steel overhaul with nazistuff and make them automatically hostile when they arrive with their zepellin. Then i would create some more sidequests to have a use for the already existing npcs of it. Also i would change the powerarmor for something more ss like. The powerarmor could have skullhelmets and instead of laserguns i would give them flamethrowers.

The scholars could get some uniforms and instead of laserweapons i would give them assault rifles. Well i wouldnt because i have no interest in such a mod but you could do easily.

And no you couldnt create an own game instead because modding is much more simple and not close as much work as you may think. Sure it is work, but it is not to compare with a full game.

Also you could find some people who like your idea and create a team with them. Just ask the people who uploaded all this nazistuff they may like your idea.

[tomomi1922]

Once again, I saw some content made by modders and thought I could use them. And get this, contrary to some beliefs that I am trying to promote and glorify Nazi, in reality I just try to put these Nazi outfits to spawn on the "enemy hands". As it stands, what can you even do with Nazi outfits? Wear it yourself or give to settlers, companions. While I have no problem with that, it is more or less subconsciously normalize Nazi as part of a fancy selection of outfits a player can choose from.

 

So from the get go, I am doing a big favor for those who are extremely sensitive to Nazi and fear the "Nazi promotion". The Raiders, in FO4 Vanilla, are quite murderous and violent. They are known to ambush and kill wanderers (and stake them, or throw their naked corpses in a pit). Only second to Super Mutants who chop people off into "meat piles" and hanging them like dry meat. So putting Nazi uniform on Raiders does send a subconscious message "they are murderous fools and these are their uniforms". Players see these Raiders from afar and the first thought through their heads is ... how to kill them.
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I personally do not know how far this mod will go. I don't care. I am not a huge fan of Nazi game. In fact, Fallout teaches me how to love vintage stuff that the entire setup almost suggested the Great War took place in 1960s instead of 2077 (since the fashion and music froze at at the time of the nuclear holocaust). With all these vintage theme, from music, poster arts, cars, radio .... even the combat rifle looks like a Thompson (iconic weapons for old style gangster movies). So naturally, Nazi German content fits.

 

You ask how? Well, this is a work of fiction, we can make it fit. I don't mean to make something like a Reverse-Armageddon magic spell that can restore the 200 years old wasteland into pre-war condition, that is way too far fetched. But the game did not mention much or Europe means there is flexibility there. Unlike Tolkien (creator of Lords of the Ring) who actually created his world first (and constructed the Elf language) then populate characters/stories to make his worlds alive, the rest of the world pretty much have undetermined content outside their scope. I am sure the creator (and his writers) for Fallout franchise have no idea whereas ... what really happened to Middle East, did ISIS rise up? Was there a Korean war, VN war, Iraq war? Was there a housing bubble in 2008? What happened to Steve Jobs and his iconic Apple company? But a lot of details suggested that the world history took on an entirely different route. Obviously mobile phone or smart phone were not quite invented, maybe the clunky Pipboy can serve as mobile phone?

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As it stands, I am running into problems of simply texture replacement for existing Raider gear.

- Raiders are notorious for mixing equipment (unlike other factions who actually follow some kind of uniform code).

- A lot of equipment sharing, some outfits are shared with CoA and Gunners.

- Raiders have too many closed face headgear (while the existing Nazi outfits have too many open face headgear with hair). Rexturing means a captain hat shows up with invisible head.
- It would be hard to retexture Pipe weapons with something more German looking, since weapons have a more complex upgrading system.

Thus, I plan to scrap the "retexture" route, and explore into changing the level list for Raiders only. This way, I can avoid retexturing the harness (lots of people would hate to lose the Harness) and a lot of raider armors that are used by different factions (and settlers). It's fine if a settler picks up random equipment in concern for survival (like a homeless person would), but if another settler shows up at my door step wearing PRISTINE Nazi outfit, I would go ballistic. It can't be helped by the game. Nazi outfit is a retexture of Army Fatigue so you can only "wear them very properly" or not wear them at all.

Edited January 21, 2016 by tomomi1922

[tomomi1922]

For this game I decide to learn modding (more than just simple retexture for Skyrim, Sims 3, FO3, NV, and all other games). And if this goes well, I will take off with GECK to create some scripts to give some quests. Or even, make an unofficial DLC for a new companion (with proper voice acting). Something like encountering a spy or defected agent of the Nazi regime. We must rescue her from pursuing Nazi agents, and her personal quest line involves re-infiltrating their ranks for some unfinished business. Something from stopping the Nazi from unearthing an unused atom bomb in an old weapon search center, the mission wiped her team out with herself as the last survivor.

I am "inspired" by Bioware's Mass Effect 2. They introduced 2 new companions as DLC. It feels a lot like a player mod because it almost does not alter game mechanic or plot in any way. Players get a quest to meet/find the new companion. With some short quest on existing map, we gain them as companion. Kasumi personal quest takes players to a brand new map (one time deal) with some very cool landscape and backstory that adds a bit of lore, but that is pretty much it. The rest of the game Kasumi is just like a custom companion (with a special skill that player cannot learn), no special interaction, no romance, in ways that I feel (if Mass Effect can be modded easily), people can clone her and pump out about 100+ of companions even more interestingly. But granted, Mass Effect has way more importance use for companion than FO4 does.

And I am sure FO4 players can appreciate the charm of a genuine German blond, perhaps speaking English with German accent. All the guys are going to drop dead.

[DancesWithLlamas]

Nazis make a good bad-guy archetype because they were f*#@ing bad-guys and a wartime enemy. Just like terrorists or psychopathic killers (raider) make great bad-guys. It's the ratio of evil s#*! to sympathetic traits. That said, I associate Nazis with historical Germany. I associate Germans with the country that's been a NATO ally since before I was born and an exporter of fine automobiles. Other people have different feelings on the subject which are perfectly valid. I'd be more cautious with the terrorist or ISIS archetype because it's fresh, and would probably be perceived as Islamophobic. I think the raiders avoid any of the potential issues of making an identifiable group as them.

 

On the history side of things, a few corrections:

 

• WW2 was fought just as it was in our timeline, so there are no Third Reich Nazis, unless you want to get silly (Moon Nazis) or go alternate-alternate timeline (where Germany wins in Europe and is the enemy instead of the Chinese).
• You might be able to make the case for American Neo-Nazis adopting the WW2 SS uniforms. I wouldn't put it past them. God I hate Illinois Nazis...(there's an opportunity here for some Blues Brothers references).
• The first noted divergence was the USSA (not NASA) first manned orbit mission in 1961.
• 1961 is also the first mention of the split into 13 commonwealths.

And the ocean...yeah, I'm pretty sure there are ships crossing the Atlantic, just not many because there aren't very many people. And salt water is [already] corrosive, not so much the radiation. I would be surprised if the oceans were radioactive.

[JuJooGuppy]

I think a big part of all of this is just not making it as though you associate all German people as Nazi's automatically, if that makes sense. Its the same with Islamic people and ISIS. ISIS is a seriously messed up militant group, that has bred a great deal of fear and hatred. Unfortunately, this is now causing a lot of "Whelp, they are Islamic / from an islamic country, they are automatically evil terrorist!" mentality leading to hate crimes and treating anyone with Islamic background with contempt. I mean, just look at the fear mongering going on in politics now...

As for Fallout lore tie-ins... I don't think it'd be too hard to simply state that while defeated, some of the die-hard Nazi's witht he help of American sympathizers were able to go into hiding, waiting for a moment when they could attempt to rise again... and the post nuclear world was as good of time as any. *shrug*