On the longevity of FO4, and the future of the modding scene.

[DrxVL]

TLDR: Read the last paragraph.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't finished the game yet. I have really enjoyed my time in FO4 so far. However, I feel Bethesda is really resting on their laurels with this one. They made some good changes to be sure. The weapon modification system is a welcome addition, and I've poured more time into settlements than is sane to do. I've done this knowing that there is no significant reward for doing so, nor penalty for ignoring it. I don't even mind the removal of skills, although the existing Perk system has ample room for improvement (I hate passives, they are so boring).

 

However, I fear it won't have the longevity of it's predecessors, or that of their previous major title Skyrim. Now, imho Bethesda's games have always lived or died due to the dedication of the modding community, and I have no doubt once the CK is released there will be some incredible mods coming, but will it be enough?

 

Some things just can't be fixed. The dumbification (it's a word... -_-) of the dialog system has come to a head this time. Compare the the quality of dialog in FO2 for example. Honestly, I'm not bothered too much if we have little agency in the outcome of a conversation, as long as it is interesting and engaging. The linked example excels at that. Unfortunately, no mod will bring this to FO4. Another thing unlikely to be fixed is the ending(s). I'm not liking what I'm hearing so far about the end, but I really enjoyed the ending in NV that really changed based on your actions. Yea it was only a few lines of dialog for each of your major actions, but it had a profound effect imo.

 

Another aspect I feel was a huge step back, but could potentially be fixed is the lack of weapon variety. Yea the modification system is great, but we had great, albeit less flashy, weapon modification mechanics in previous games thanks largely to the modding community. It's going to take a lot of time and effort to bring the variety found in the Mojave to the Commonwealth, and include it in such a way that it feels natural. Proper ammo crafting benches, armor and weapon crafting, unique -er *ahem* "legendary" weapons that are actually interesting with unique models, and a sense of satisfying weapon progression are all lacking from the vanilla game in my opinion. Mods have begun to address some of this, but I feel extensive overhauls will be necessary rather than the patchwork we have now. The legendaries we find in the game aren't even all that interesting. I want to scrap most of them, but can't. I think Gopher said it best when he pointed out how Bethesda seems to have taken some cues form Borderlands, but it just doesn't feel right in Fallout.

 

These are just a few examples that stand out to me like a sore thumb. Ultimately, I feel like this installment in the franchise feels either lazy, or the product of some really poor decisions. To me it feels like they spent all the budget on creating the massive world, level design, and voice acting, and ended up stripping out a lot of what made the previous games great. I've always come into Bethesda games late so that the modding scene could mature and improve the game, because I feel all their games are just "meh" in vanilla form. I didn't wait long enough this time around apparently. Now I realize I'm being very negative, but I'm still hopeful that a year from now this will be a great game. Now for the TLDR and the primary purpose of this post.

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TLDR: Fallout 4 made a few steps forward, and several steps backward. Some things the modding community can fix, and some they can't. So, to experienced modders I ask: Can Fallout 4 be made as great as FO3/NV? How likely is it that the modding community will kick out high quality mods that really bring back the things that made the previous games great?

Edited January 25, 2016 by Ronin Silfar

[gabrieldragonking]

i think that skyrim have lived way too long and fo4 will live 1-2 years (what skyrim should have live)

 

it's hard to found gamethat let you mod it,and not Treat you like a malware

[lilkandeekid]

Most ES and Fallout games tend to last till the next one comes out, really doesnt matter if its better or not (NV was just more content with no improvements imo).

With that, Skyrim will still be going for a while longer as the next installment was quoted as holiday season 2018.

Fallout 4, with an improved game system from Skyrim + heading to be the first game to let you easily make mods for its console versions will have a real solid longevity in the end, and if anything get a lot more people interested in modding.

 

TLDR: Yes....it will modded oh so grandly...

[jones177]

In my view it is a lot better than Fallout 3 & NV because it is set up more like a sim than a story based game.

 

In my currant play through I am joining no factions. I am using a mod to make the settlers killable & have raised the difficulty. Now is a settlement defense game with a backdrop of the conflict between the BOS & the Synth.

This is basically the way I play Skyrim. I have that game set up to be a battle against the bandits with the civil war as a backdrop. With Fallout 3 & NV it was really hard not to do the story & like Witcher 3, after doing the story there is no point in playing the game.

 

It is really up to the international modding community whether this game lasts or not. It is a lot easier to relate to a pure fantasy world like Oblivion & Skyrim than to a town in the US that is not an international destination.

 

Later

[zanity]

FO4 is a game released in a truly terrible condition, and yet because almost no-one else is challenging Beth with this type of experience, most fans have 'enjoyed' playing it. However, I think most people recognise just how many avoidable mistakes Beth made with FO4, and how these mistakes undercut the ability of mods to prolong the longevity of the title.

 

FO4. of course, also 'steals' from almost all the most popular mods made for FO3, NV and Skyrim, meaning that a lot of the 'low hanging' mod fruit is un-needed.

 

The biggest problem is that the world of FO4 is so dysfunctional, yet baked in, that anything short of unprecendet co-operation between the best mod authors would be unlikely to fix the 'dead' RPG-free nature of FO4. In FO4, every faction seems to exist everywhere- with the world having no 'zoning' (the great strength of Skyrim, with its cities under the control of different jarls). Then FO4 lacks the classic inns/pubs of FO4 that can be used as stable points of initiation.

 

Yet the curious thing about FO4 is how much of the map is avalaible for modders to 'subvert' for higher purposes. Loads of buildings are 'boarded up' and could be repurposed. Settlement locations could be 'stolen' and used to create whole new towns that could operate as TRUE hubs. But both these forms of mods need the co-operation of the player and other modders- so FO4 can be transformed and 'rewritten' for the benefit of further mods.

 

What I am suggestion is that the 'VANILLA' game be converted, with the active agreement of the modding community, into a VANILLA 2 version, a heavily BASE modded version of the original game where new towns and locations are added all across the map. Obviously the original use of settlements would have to be completely modded into something else, so the settlement locations can become the new base hubs.

 

But this wouldn't be the same as a so-called 'total conversion'. No- this would literally create a new 'Vanilla' starting point that was a combination of the original game, and mods designed explicitly to make the original game more like Skyrim in modding potential.

 

Yes, I know this is a pipe-dream. People want 'compatible' mods, and yet mod authors mostly want the freedom to work independently. Problem is, the vanilla game is just rubbish for story mods (like the new companions or iNPC that transformed Skyrim). What did the other Fallout games get as their 'best' mods? More dungeons and 'bounties' and costumes.

 

Would more dungeons keep most people playing FO4- I very much doubt this. FO4 badly needs 'world-building'- ANOTHER 'story' placed on the map.

[bethjunkie]

 

What did the other Fallout games get as their 'best' mods? More dungeons and 'bounties' and costumes.

 

Would more dungeons keep most people playing FO4- I very much doubt this. FO4 badly needs 'world-building'- ANOTHER 'story' placed on the map.

 

There is so much wrong with this that it hurts my brain. Did you even play modded FO3 or NV? Dungeons, bounties and costumes? Ever hear of FWE, EVE, Project Nevada, FOOK, Real Time Settler, Willow, Niner, Beyond Boulder Dome, Imp's More Complex Needs, WMK/WMX, any of Puce Moose's wonderful quest mods, the Quest For Heaven series? Yeah, all of those were just a cool costume found in a quick dungeon. I get that you may not like FO4 and think that it needs fixing in a million different ways but there's no need to take a dump on modders because you don't like Bethesda's decisions.

[tomomi1922]

 

 

What did the other Fallout games get as their 'best' mods? More dungeons and 'bounties' and costumes.

 

Would more dungeons keep most people playing FO4- I very much doubt this. FO4 badly needs 'world-building'- ANOTHER 'story' placed on the map.

 

There is so much wrong with this that it hurts my brain. Did you even play modded FO3 or NV? Dungeons, bounties and costumes? Ever hear of FWE, EVE, Project Nevada, FOOK, Real Time Settler, Willow, Niner, Beyond Boulder Dome, Imp's More Complex Needs, WMK/WMX, any of Puce Moose's wonderful quest mods, the Quest For Heaven series? Yeah, all of those were just a cool costume found in a quick dungeon. I get that you may not like FO4 and think that it needs fixing in a million different ways but there's no need to take a dump on modders because you don't like Bethesda's decisions.

 

 

I dabbled a little with FO3 so FO4 is my first serious FO game. But I can add in my Skyrim experience.

 

Skyrim had been very awesome for me. The land was somewhat big enough that II could be a true wanderer with my Gypsie Caravan, setting camp anywhere with a click of button. And when I mean camp, I mean a full fledged player home with all crafting stations and storage and a fire place (that counts when you use the mod that makes temperature matter). That mod even works better than Sims 3 in that aspect. That said, the game still has "chapters" that can only go forward, a world stage that is dictated by the plot. One you finish this plot you feel there is nothing you can do to really affect the world, just aimless traveling.

 

I know modders get a lot more content, and I didn't even touch 1/3 of those. I quit Skyrim not because of the gameplay but the frustration of sorting out mod conflict. I reached a point where no matter what I do, I would CTD outside Whiterun. But I agree with bethjunkie, no need to complain against modders about the limitation set in place by Bethesda.

 

In Skyrim I wanted to try to be a wanderer/gypsie. Don't want to be hero saving the world, just travel around and deal with small matters, run a trading route, buy goods that don't cater to stat and dps, something about aiding famine, solving a plague, etc... I have higher hope for FO4 in this aspect because FO4 seems to give more tools (at least the Sim like settlement and settlers). So my dream as a wanderer with a caravan will happen again in FO4. This time I may even mod it myself. Then I also want to play as a private militia, owning my airship and troopers ....

[llamaRCA]

 

In Skyrim I wanted to try to be a wanderer/gypsie. Don't want to be hero saving the world, just travel around and deal with small matters, run a trading route, buy goods that don't cater to stat and dps, something about aiding famine, solving a plague, etc... I have higher hope for FO4 in this aspect because FO4 seems to give more tools (at least the Sim like settlement and settlers). So my dream as a wanderer with a caravan will happen again in FO4. This time I may even mod it myself. Then I also want to play as a private militia, owning my airship and troopers ....

 

Perhaps you should take up modding since you have such very specific goals you'd like to accomplish in game. That's how most of us start. We have a vision of what we'd like to see in game and make it happen. No game is going to provide the mechanics for every, single, possible scenario that every, single player can imagine to do in game.

[tomomi1922]

 

 

In Skyrim I wanted to try to be a wanderer/gypsie. Don't want to be hero saving the world, just travel around and deal with small matters, run a trading route, buy goods that don't cater to stat and dps, something about aiding famine, solving a plague, etc... I have higher hope for FO4 in this aspect because FO4 seems to give more tools (at least the Sim like settlement and settlers). So my dream as a wanderer with a caravan will happen again in FO4. This time I may even mod it myself. Then I also want to play as a private militia, owning my airship and troopers ....

 

Perhaps you should take up modding since you have such very specific goals you'd like to accomplish in game. That's how most of us start. We have a vision of what we'd like to see in game and make it happen. No game is going to provide the mechanics for every, single, possible scenario that every, single player can imagine to do in game.

 

Oh of course I am not here expecting things to customize to the way I want. I merely said the existing mods gave me a lot of what I enjoyed. I am not even the OP.

 

Most people in the world want to customize things their way (more or less) when it comes to everything from cars, clothes, houses, even their iphone wallpaper. While everyone can change their phone wallpaper, not many will pay $3000 to repaint their cars (or do it on a monthly basis). It is due to their personal limitation. I too want a lot of stuff, but I learn to be content with what I can get because game modding is not my career or my day job. I can say I go nuts with Bodyslide and settlement building: spending an entire 3-4 hours block crafting weapons to supply settlers.

 

The gypsie caravan was given to me (instead of me dreaming about it first). Upon seeing the mod, it sparked all kinds of gameplay ideas. I actually used that story to detail there can be more things to do than just fixing up weapons and armors to go fight more mobs to find more weapons and armors (like the case of most MMORPG these days, the endless cycle of arm race).

 

I am going to do more mod creation now with FO4 since I can "grow" with the community while it's still young. That is the plan, until some life event totally take me out of the game entirely.

[DancesWithLlamas]

 

 

What did the other Fallout games get as their 'best' mods? More dungeons and 'bounties' and costumes.

 

Would more dungeons keep most people playing FO4- I very much doubt this. FO4 badly needs 'world-building'- ANOTHER 'story' placed on the map.

 

There is so much wrong with this that it hurts my brain. Did you even play modded FO3 or NV? Dungeons, bounties and costumes? Ever hear of FWE, EVE, Project Nevada, FOOK, Real Time Settler, Willow, Niner, Beyond Boulder Dome, Imp's More Complex Needs, WMK/WMX, any of Puce Moose's wonderful quest mods, the Quest For Heaven series? Yeah, all of those were just a cool costume found in a quick dungeon. I get that you may not like FO4 and think that it needs fixing in a million different ways but there's no need to take a dump on modders because you don't like Bethesda's decisions.

 

 

I never played NV, but if I understand correctly it had an interrelated faction reputation/affinity system that gives a much better feeling of playing in a world where things you do in one place affect another, even when it's not part of a major story point.

 

If @zanity's desire for more world-building is like mine, it's the connection between the side-quests and locations (many of which are great in vanilla FO4) and anything else that seems lacking/unsatisfying. So, I didn't read it as putting down modder-created content, as much as asking if it would be enough if that sense of interrelatedness (I head is) found in FO:NV is missing.