Keynes VS Hayek

[marharth]

Not that many of you will watch this but if you do this is why Hayek will win and you will loose.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Hayek will win. His theory has been losing as far as influencing government policy. All the things I saw in an initial viewing if the first video ignores the Kayek view and doubles down on Keynes. If you mean Hayek's theory is reality and he predicted most of this years ago you are correct. Did you notice the boxing match in the second video I posted where Hayek knocks out Keynes but the ref awards Keynes the win...it's happening everyday The politicians and the voters ignore the truth and double down on stupid. I'll try and watch the whole video(s) later but honestly the intro is a turn off with the annoying noises and quick media cuts. I can cut second long clips to say anything I want.

I think it is clear that Hayek's theory is in practice in the USA.

 

 

Sure, we did the bailouts. That had nothing to do with economics though. That happened because the banks told the government what to do.

 

Did you mean that it's clear that Keynes theory is in practice? Hayek would mean no bailouts and decreased regulation, definitely not happening.

As I said, the bailouts would have happened no matter what.

 

Decreased regulation is were the country is trying to go due to the right.

 

The leadership of the country has a right wing majority.

 

I guess both theories are in practice, the one that is being practiced the most depends on who is in power.

[csgators]

As I said, the bailouts would have happened no matter what.

 

Not if we followed Hayek's advice or if someone like Ron Paul was President.

 

Decreased regulation is were the country is trying to go due to the right.

 

But it never, ever happens. A few people trying doesn't actually change anything.

 

The leadership of the country has a right wing majority.

 

Not true, the Democrats have the White House and the Senate.

 

I guess both theories are in practice, the one that is being practiced the most depends on who is in power.

 

No, they aren't, that is the reason I created this thread in the first place. Everyone who talks about doing what Hayek wanted is labeled as extreme fringe al la Ron Paul and the TEA Party.

[marharth]

As I said, the bailouts would have happened no matter what.

 

Not if we followed Hayek's advice or if someone like Ron Paul was President.

 

Decreased regulation is were the country is trying to go due to the right.

 

But it never, ever happens. A few people trying doesn't actually change anything.

 

The leadership of the country has a right wing majority.

 

Not true, the Democrats have the White House and the Senate.

 

I guess both theories are in practice, the one that is being practiced the most depends on who is in power.

 

No, they aren't, that is the reason I created this thread in the first place. Everyone who talks about doing what Hayek wanted is labeled as extreme fringe al la Ron Paul and the TEA Party.

Democrat does not = left wing.

 

Don't forgot Obama has done a lot of things the republicans wanted. He gave massive tax cuts out, he put out a really weak health care bill when he claimed he was going to do universal health care, he has continued the foreign affair policies of bush...

 

It is very common for democrats to vote alongside republicans, and it is much less common for republicans to vote alongside democrats.

 

Almost every republican in house/senate wants to lower taxes and regulations on corporations and banks. that is not a minority at all in the right wing.

[csgators]

As I said, the bailouts would have happened no matter what.

 

Not if we followed Hayek's advice or if someone like Ron Paul was President.

 

Decreased regulation is were the country is trying to go due to the right.

 

But it never, ever happens. A few people trying doesn't actually change anything.

 

The leadership of the country has a right wing majority.

 

Not true, the Democrats have the White House and the Senate.

 

I guess both theories are in practice, the one that is being practiced the most depends on who is in power.

 

No, they aren't, that is the reason I created this thread in the first place. Everyone who talks about doing what Hayek wanted is labeled as extreme fringe al la Ron Paul and the TEA Party.

Democrat does not = left wing.

 

Don't forgot Obama has done a lot of things the republicans wanted. He gave massive tax cuts out, he put out a really weak health care bill when he claimed he was going to do universal health care, he has continued the foreign affair policies of bush...

 

It is very common for democrats to vote alongside republicans, and it is much less common for republicans to vote alongside democrats.

 

Almost every republican in house/senate wants to lower taxes and regulations on corporations and banks. that is not a minority at all in the right wing.

 

So what your saying is that the policies of the right wing are so obviously good for America even a huge Democrat majority decided to adopt it's policies? Not that I agree with what you said, for example what taxes were "lowered"? What was the tax rate before the change and how long had it been in effect? As far as Obamacare goes they shoved it through without a single republican vote, the Dems own it so if you don't like it blame them and your President for providing no leadership on the issue whatsoever.

[marharth]

As I said, the bailouts would have happened no matter what.

 

Not if we followed Hayek's advice or if someone like Ron Paul was President.

 

Decreased regulation is were the country is trying to go due to the right.

 

But it never, ever happens. A few people trying doesn't actually change anything.

 

The leadership of the country has a right wing majority.

 

Not true, the Democrats have the White House and the Senate.

 

I guess both theories are in practice, the one that is being practiced the most depends on who is in power.

 

No, they aren't, that is the reason I created this thread in the first place. Everyone who talks about doing what Hayek wanted is labeled as extreme fringe al la Ron Paul and the TEA Party.

Democrat does not = left wing.

 

Don't forgot Obama has done a lot of things the republicans wanted. He gave massive tax cuts out, he put out a really weak health care bill when he claimed he was going to do universal health care, he has continued the foreign affair policies of bush...

 

It is very common for democrats to vote alongside republicans, and it is much less common for republicans to vote alongside democrats.

 

Almost every republican in house/senate wants to lower taxes and regulations on corporations and banks. that is not a minority at all in the right wing.

 

So what your saying is that the policies of the right wing are so obviously good for America even a huge Democrat majority decided to adopt it's policies? Not that I agree with what you said, for example what taxes were "lowered"? What was the tax rate before the change and how long had it been in effect? As far as Obamacare goes they shoved it through without a single republican vote, the Dems own it so if you don't like it blame them and your President for providing no leadership on the issue whatsoever.

No I am saying democrats are not left wing.

 

They vote with the right wing on a lot of things.

 

Taxes were not lowered for you.

 

The republicans want taxes lowered for the rich, or for everyone.

 

Mainly they wanted it for the rich, and Obama handed that to them more then Bush could.

 

Obama's health bill failed terribly because it was so weak. That is something the right wing wanted (for it to not exist, or for it to not change much), and something Obama was happy to do.

 

If Obama was left wing he would have at least tried to pass universal health care, but went in with a weak bill.

[csgators]

Go back to Huffpo for more talking points, you provide no proof for your assertions. I am not a member of the press so I am not going to let you get away with making statements that are clearly untrue. Obama is the most left wing president we have ever had. Just because he is too incompetent to enact his agenda to your satisfaction does not change that fact.

[marharth]

Go back to Huffpo for more talking points, you provide no proof for your assertions. I am not a member of the press so I am not going to let you get away with making statements that are clearly untrue. Obama is the most left wing president we have ever had. Just because he is too incompetent to enact his agenda to your satisfaction does not change that fact.

What did I say that is untrue?

 

Aurielius (even though he seems to hate me) could debunk your claim that he is the most left wing president since he has a lot of knowledge in history.

 

It is well know Obama has kept at right wing policies such as the wars.

 

He has kept going with the wars even though he claimed he was going to close gitmo, and pull out, the right wing should love that.

 

He put out a tax cut bill that cut taxes more then bush did for the top 2 percent, and extended unemployment benefits for 8 months (which is insignificant).

 

EDIT: Read your other post, no possible idea how you missed the massive news of the tax cut bill, but ill post a link from fox news (so you won't claim its biased).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/17/congress-passes-extend-tax-cuts-jobless-aid/

Edited May 4, 2011 by marharth

[Aurielius]

Marharth excerpt~

"Aurielius (even though he seems to hate me) could debunk your claim that he is the most left wing president since he has a lot of knowledge in history."

 

Marharth,

I do not hate you. You frustrate me at times but I hold no animus towards you personally. It's just that facts are facts and opinions are something else, if you confined your response to saying that they were opinions as Grannywills suggested you would be on more solid ground.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Aurielius

[csgators]

I'll help you out Marharth, what happened was they extended existing tax rates rather than let them go back up to the rates they were at a decade or so ago. Most people would call that keeping the tax rates the same, not of course if your a Democrat and truth is just a thing that gets you way of course. Edited May 4, 2011 by csgators

[Harbringe]

Not that many of you will watch this but if you do this is why Hayek will win and you will loose.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Hayek will win. His theory has been losing as far as influencing government policy. All the things I saw in an initial viewing if the first video ignores the Kayek view and doubles down on Keynes. If you mean Hayek's theory is reality and he predicted most of this years ago you are correct. Did you notice the boxing match in the second video I posted where Hayek knocks out Keynes but the ref awards Keynes the win...it's happening everyday The politicians and the voters ignore the truth and double down on stupid. I'll try and watch the whole video(s) later but honestly the intro is a turn off with the annoying noises and quick media cuts. I can cut second long clips to say anything I want.

 

You got it right and even said it with out realizing it. The Keynesian model is a bubble model that mathematically needs an exponential growth curve in order to sustain itself ,no economy or people can ever keep up with the math forever and eventually the bubble will burst.The people choose Keynes because in the immediate sense he offers them what they want in the here and now (Greed).So far the only way the Keynesian model has been able to sustain itself is by sucking wealth out of the society itself ,we have been doing it since colonialism began really even though Keynesian economics wasn't fully formulated til later.Only thing is the ravages of it has been visited on the Third World not us ,but now it is beginning to turn inward (cut your pensions , cut your programs , cut cut everywhere).This is how Hayek will win so many cuts will be made , so much wealth will be siphoned off to support this flawed model that there won't even be a ref in the ring when the knockout punch comes .But again it will be to late for everyone standing around.

 

As for the clips at start of vid , they are there as a distraction to show that we are being distracted ,all those flashes just signify the many means by which we become diverted.They are just examples of the kind of meaningless crap that bombards us everyday. Yes it is happening everyday

Edited May 4, 2011 by Harbringe