A Palestinian State

[Aurielius]

In 1776 Americans had no history of self rule , 1863 Canadians no history of self rule , so what was it that made us band together to form a nation , it was our sense of culture , community and identity and the Palestinians have had that in abundance for a long time ,even the Ottoman Empire recognized that in the 1800's by granting the larger population centers limited self rule , Jerusalem in particular which coincidentally also included Jews and Christians ,though the majority of the population was Palestinian. Even the Jewish people would have to go back to 75 CE when the Romans kicked them out of Judea , if time was the determinate factor then you could make the same argument for them.

Though I like the tenor of your post it is not quite accurate..the colonies had effective self rule from inception through the French and Indian War. It was the reassertion of power by Parliament in order to pay for that war that was one of the causes of the insurgence in the New England Colonies. But I do not disagree with the essential point of your thesis.

[Nintii]

If a Palestinian State means that Israel must partition Jerusalem then "NO", then I do not agree to any partioning of that city in any shape or form.

All her territories or lands in and around Jerusalem must be handed back to her without any reservation whatsoever.

If the Palestinians dont like it well then they can always go and live in Iran or Syria.

 

Let them live in their own territory on the coast.

 

Just imagine if the Cubans - I have nothing against Cubans ok, well except for that egotistical dictator and his brother - demanded a section of Miami, because they lived there,

or if the Pakistanis - ok, so I have a problem with them and their double dealing ways at the moment - decided that a portion of London should be given to them because they live there.

Or choose a city in your nation and give a chunk of it to some group who lives there in a great number or even just because they want it.

How would you feel ?

 

So yes after all that, give the Palestinians a homeland, just as long as it's away from Jerusalem.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Nintii

[grannywils]

Nintii said: "Just imagine if the Cubans - I have nothing against Cubans ok, well except for that egotistical dictator and his brother - demanded a section of Miami, because they lived there,

or if the Pakistanis - ok, so I have a problem with them and their double dealing ways at the moment - decided that a portion of London should be given to them because they live there.

Or choose a city in your nation and give a chunk of it to some group who lives there in a great number or even just because they want it.

How would you feel" ?

 

That analagy doesn't work Nintii. These Palestinians are not "just a group who live in the neighborhood". This is their homeland, and has been since The Palestinian territories were formed (before the Arab-Israeli War in 1948 and the Six Day War in 1967). Yes, the territory has been and continues to be disputed, and I do not pretend to have the answers. But I thought Harbringe came up with a well thought out plan deserving of at least minimal respectful consideration.

Without taking sides in the politics or the religious issues, we all know that someone is going to have to give up something that he doesn't want to give up. Both sides are exceedingly stubborn and both sides believe that they are absolutely right. My opinion and yours are not worth a hill of beans to them. A compromise must be worked out, pure and simple, or they will war forever.

 

[Nintii]

@Grannywils

 

This is primarily a matter of the heart and not the head ... to imagine that a secular solution to a racial AND religious problem is going to be solved by some type of "let's sit down and discuss this" forum\convention\assembly or convocation is

 

going to work, is an illusion.

 

No-one to this day has been able to "solve' this issue in this manner.

 

The truth of it is quite simple ... "The Arabs want Israel dead because the Koran says so".

 

Now as Nexus doesnt allow me to "flesh this skeleton" of a statement due to it it's ban on religious topics I'll end it here, but make no mistake, as long as there is an Israel there will always be a conflict.

 

And so if there is always going to be a conflict then you might as well get stuck in and demand the most you can get as is the manner when you want something ... always ask for much more and so if you get a slight bit less well then at least you more than likely

 

will get a lot more than if you demanded less.

 

To repeat myself, this is a religious and racial war and will never be solved by a secular negotiated settlement from the West, East or anywhere else..

[grannywils]

Nintii, although I cannot dispute much of what you say, I also cannot just throw up my hands and say, "Ah, so be it. There is no solution," I do not for one minute believe that "we" are responsible for coming up with the solution. Nor do I believe that either the Palestinians or the Israelis expect us to provide them with a solution. However, the idea of peace in that region is one that appeals to me. I am quite aware of the racial and religious differences; but thank you for pointing them out. I think I may have mentioned them in my prior post.

 

Without getting into the forbidden Nexus topic of any specific religion, I will just say that in my opinion religion has probably been the cause of more wars and deaths than anything else this world has known. A good reason for the topic to be forbidden here.

 

What I was trying to say in my original post was that Harbringe had some good thoughts, and that "if they could work", it would be a remarkable end to a terrible era in the world's history. Compromise is possible among thinking peoples. Although the governments have occasionally proven difficult, there are many segments of the population in both areas who have indicated a willingness to at least talk about compromise. I have no crystal ball, and I have no idea if it could work. But I do not give up easily. And I have no right to choose sides in this issue. So I do not. It does not matter that one side is a political ally of ours. That is not what this conflict is about to the people living there. As you so readily pointed out, this is about the heart, not the head. hmm.

[Lisnpuppy]

I do not think that you can blame the Muslims completely for this as some appear to think. Israel is unmoving in these issues and with the Palestinians, if I had lived in an area for hundreds..or thousands of years and was suddenly displaced by an Israeli State I would be right pissed also.

 

Both parties are to blame and also the World Powers that put this original plan into place without having much forethought...only guilt of the Holocaust. We can try to help and perhaps may be asked to help, I do not believe it is perhaps an honest request. The Western Powers must decide to take no sides in this and support and/or condemn each side the same. Our Hypocrisy shows when we indignantly demand from one what we turn a blind eye to in the other.

 

I would like to see peace also, but frankly I don't think it will happen...ever. There may be times where there is a peaceful (relatively speaking) lull but no true peace. Make a Palestinian State..it will not matter as the Dome of the Rock still sits where Solomon's Temple was. Israel will not rest until their Temple is rebuilt. Their religion can not be separated from their political action. As much as we, the West try to convince them to do so...neither the Israeli or the Palestinian people will.

 

I think the best we can hope for is the uneasy peace and occasional fighting that has gone on the last 30 years or so. So should we have a Palestinian State...to make things "equal" perhaps...but I have no doubt that it will create as many issues as it could solve.

[marharth]

I do not think that you can blame the Muslims completely for this as some appear to think.

 

What is that supposed to mean?

[Lisnpuppy]

I do not think that you can blame the Muslims completely for this as some appear to think.

 

What is that supposed to mean?

 

Some people -in general- appear to think the violence is from the Muslims only. I do not agree this is so.

 

It means what it says.

[Kendo 2]

There needs to be a Palestinian State, in Syria. Yeah, like that is going to happen.

[marharth]

I do not think that you can blame the Muslims completely for this as some appear to think.

 

What is that supposed to mean?

 

Some people -in general- appear to think the violence is from the Muslims only. I do not agree this is so.

 

It means what it says.

Who are "The Muslims?"