New crisis on horizon: Mod Menu Category Formlist Cap Bug?

[refusedzero]

I think this issue might go deeper than we think. I did a lot of experimentation, and, more than anything, organized the hell outta my keywords, and I found some interesting stuff.

I forced everything on AWKCR and SK I could, made sure the standalone weapons I was using were set to rock AWKCR, deleted the deleted keywords in Homemaker (thank you for the good idea Battousai124), baked the entire SK Integration Patch from Homemaker directly into the Homemaker.esm (which sucked, NovaCora is a friggin' Saint for making the sk integration patch and maintaining multiple versions), baked the AWKCR keywords from the Grenade Expansion Pack patch directly into the mod, and a bunch of other crap I'm forgetting (but listed the important stuff).

The biggest footprint by far was Homemaker. I didn't count how many deleted keywords I cut out, but it was a lot. GXP was a lot less keywords but seemed on the heavy side too.

Here's what I noticed:

• I had previously been experiencing repeated CTDs near Station Olivia. I explored around a little bit (prior to cleaning my game) and noticed the Sentry Bot in the junk yard nearby was missing pieces on the back (funky orange boxes instead of the back parts) and I would ctd when entering the cell with it. I now think the CTDs were almost certainly caused by the Sentry Bot not spawning in correctly because of the keyword cap bug. Now that I have a lot less of a keyword footprint, the Sentry Bot is fine and no more CTDs. The crazy part to me was this was while testing on a bugged up, just had 60 mods cut from it/load order shifted around with heavy edits save. Even on such a broke save the CTD issue was gone, and it was 100% repeatable beforehand.
  
• I experienced new weather effects in Nuclear Weather that I had never seen despite definitely going through the storms previously. I had been talking with the mod author who had experienced the bug himself as well as users reporting it, and we were all running into the issue of shader effects not loading in proper. I have been trying to fix this problem for a few days now. All weathers now work perfectly (I tested all Nuclear Storms using console commands). I think the keyword bug was causing visual effect issues. Again, tested on a borked to high heaven save.
  
• Less noticeably I also experienced weather effects from True Storms I had never seen before. I got a dust storm after never seeing one despite an obscene amount of time playing with True Storms. I also experienced rain storms I hadn't seen, and I'm pretty sure small storm visual effects were now loading in that weren't there before (I'm not 100% on this because I didn't even realize it was happening before and can't think of how to test it). I'm pretty positive I'm experiencing weathers that weren't loading in properly before due to the keyword bug (again, not 100%, but the difference in weather patterns from before and after were seriously noticeable). This again on a super broke save.

I think the keyword bug is plaguing a lot of people without them even noticing it. It's messing with things that are hard to notice (beyond the invisible robots), such as visual fx for storms, lightning, radstorm shaders, ect. I'm almost positive I was missing a ton of weather stuff and not realizing it, and Nuclear Weather was for sure missing fx because of the bug.

Here's my load order. t is crazy super custom glued together with xEdit and is why it looks so weird, but I thought I should share because I'm using a lot of different crafting mods with different keywords than others posting theirs.

Fallout4.esm
Arbitration - Resources.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
SettlementKeywords.esm
Homemaker.esm
AdjustedEncounterZones.esp
Arbitration.esp
Arbitration - Button Lowered Weapons - Auto Raise from Cover.esp
Eli_ArmourCollection.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-00-ValsPicks.esp
ZW's F4 Power Armor Overhaul.esp
Better Locational Damage.esp
UltraTweakPatch.esp
no_level_reqs de-localized.esp
Better Perks.esp
MoreWeaves.esp
CutWeaponModsRestored.esp
GrenadeExpansionPack.esp
GXPIntegration.esp
Sensible NPC Health.esp
Wastelander's Cookbook.esp
No Lowered Suppressor and Bayonet Range.esp
CBBE.esp
Chem_redux.esp
Crafting Workbench.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Ammo.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Ammo Expanded.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Ammo Special.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Faction and Quest Requirements.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Junk Items.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Power Armor.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Pre War and Manufactured.esp
IWN Core 1.7.esp
LegendaryModification.esp
LegendaryModificationMisc.esp
50 cal Lovin.esp
CTHColoredFriendliesWeaponDrawn-NSL.esp
CutWeaponModsRestored-UniqueWeaponModRecipes.esp
Extended weapon mods.esp
Radiant Clouds and Fogs.esp
TrueStormsFO4.esp
dD-Enhanced Blood.esp
def_inv_scrap_en.esp
Dynamic Weapon Shadows.esp
BetterCompanions.esp
Eli Companion Overhaul.esp
FO4LaserBolts.esp
GOREmod.esp
BetterNightVision.esp
InteriorsEnhanced.esp
DX Courser X-92 Power Suit.esp
Kerrigan.esp
KerriganColorChange.esp
KerriganGlasses.esp
Vasstek_Vaultsuit.esp
Nanohelmet.esp
NanoArmor.esp
B-90.esp
StealthSuit.esp
AK2047.esp
AK_AK2047Standalone.esp
AK47.esp
AK_AK47Standalone.esp
R91M.esp
AK_R91Standalone.esp
G3.esp
AK_G3Standalone.esp
IF88TacShotgun.esp
AK_IF88Standalone.esp
USP 45.esp
AK_USP45Standalone.esp
Glock20.esp
AK_G20Standalone.esp
Minutemenoverhaul.esp
Settlement Resources Rebalanced.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetSetMortalPatch.esp
Carbon Fiber Combat Rifle.esp
AK_CarbonFibreStandalone.esp
M2216.esp
AK_M2216Standalone.esp
zWM92SE.esp
AK_M92SEStandalone.esp
M9.esp
AK_M9Standalone.esp
m82a.esp
AK_M82AStandalone.esp
BattleRifle.esp
AK_G67Standalone.esp
CommChemExpanded.esp
MoBettaScrap.esp
More Shadows - All Tweaks.esp
MoreNoticeableHitEffect_REDMOREhardcore.esp
PipBoyShadows.esp
Realistic crippling damages.esp
DarkerNightsDetection.esp
VIS-PatchChemRedux.esp
[PPE] Crafting Workbenches + Immersive Weapon Names [Patch].esp
VIS-PatchZephyrWarriorF4PAOverhaul-BySlot.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
Armour Categories.esp
Craftable Armor Size.esp
Lootable Highlight.esp
Armorsmith Elianora Extended.esp
Armour Categories Add-Ons Utility.esp
Armour Categories Add-Ons Utility - ZWF4PAO Patch.esp-v0.9.2.esp
Minutemenoverhaul_ACRd Patch.esp
Armour Categories Add-Ons Utility - VIS Patch.esp
Simple Bug Fixes.esp
Armorsmith Prototypes Extended.esp
NukaRadBans.esp
unleveleditems.esp
TrueStormsFO4-ClimateSettings.esp
Nuclear weather-TrueStormCompat.esp
True Nights v01.esp

I hope any of this is helpful. Let me know how I can better help y'all test this stuff. =)

Edited February 8, 2016 by refusedzero

[Battousai124]

@refusedzero

Huh I could have saved you the trouble of doing it yourself, since I already did, maybe I should post a link?!

Mostly I make patches for myself for a lot of things, the USP for example I made for myself so it gets tagged with the right caliber and comp with Legendary Mods and craftable with AWKCR.

But I guess I gotta rework my patches into the plugins now, uuuugggghhhhh!

 

Does anyone have an idea if this keyword s#*! is a limitation from the engine and not fixable or if this is something that just needs a clever solution?

 

P.S.: Visually I have only the problem of "super-smudged" Textures and not only at the start of the game sometimes right in the middle of a several hour session. I have no idea how to deal with that.

[wax2k]

P.S.: Visually I have only the problem of "super-smudged" Textures and not only at the start of the game sometimes right in the middle of a several hour session. I have no idea how to deal with that.

Although it might and should have gotten better with the latest Fallout patch, you could try this:

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/808/?

 

I helped me a lot pre Fallout 4 v1.3.

[Battousai124]

@wax

If I have both the original values in the Fallout4.ini and the upgraded values in the Fallout4Custom.ini, which one would work in that case?

Edited February 8, 2016 by Battousai124

[wax2k]

The values in Fallout4Custom.ini should override the ones in Fallout4.ini. Edited February 8, 2016 by wax2k

[Gambit77]

I think I understand how this bug is making it's way into vanilla keyword territory and causing the robot bug. I think that new MA keywords from all the new mod weapons are piling up and putting people over the mod menu keyword cap. But because the new MA keywords are attached to vanilla AP keywords, it makes their effective load order for the menus 00 Fallout4.esm. I think that the AP keywords that they use are loaded inside the Fallout4.esm before the keywords for the robot parts so the cap gets hit and the robot parts that come after that get discarded.

[kingculex]

It does sound scary and it does possibly explain another issue a person was having were the custom mod menus from Armorsmith Extended were messed up in the vanilla armor workbench. Removal of a power armor mod .esm that was heavy in keywords fixed it.

 

When it comes to adding shared weapon mod menu keywords to AWKCR please keep it optional. Have one version that has them and one that does not OR have a list of them so a user can go in and remove them to reduce the amount of keywords being loaded. (grumble grumble and cuts the unused keywords from SK.)

Edited February 8, 2016 by kingculex

[refusedzero]

I'm starting to see posts reporting CTDs on high keyword footprint mods like CROSS and Homemaker. This post stood out the most:

"I have been having a problem with this mod- and any other mod that adds a new tab to the game. It just makes the game crash. Have you heard of this problem before?"

I think the array overflow bug can cause CTDs after experiencing the issue myself.

Edited February 9, 2016 by refusedzero

[Niero]

I think I deleted the convo you were linking to, but it was orginally started on my sticky I forgot to lock and that wasnt a great place for a bug report anyway.

 

I'm still not sure how MA keywords could be relevent to this issue. MAs are just filters for the AP keywords which actually designate mod slots. It's possible to make a OMOD require more than one MA keyword, so theoretically theres no need for custom keywords at all (though that would be a huge pain in the butt).

 

For example: I can put ma_LaserGun and ma_GatlingLaser keywords both on one item, give it a standard AP like ap_gun_reciver, and then create an OMOD that checks for BOTH ma_LaserGun and ma_GatlingLaser, and the item's modmenu will see the New OMOD without that same OMOD showing up in either the Gatling Laser or the Laser Rifle's mod menus.

[refusedzero]

Tonycubed2 said this while I was talking with him: "Not keywords. Formlists. Even though you could add 100s of forms to a formlist only the first 128 or so were used. Bet you that's the issue. Formlists or arrays maxing out. Solution is to make more formlists or with code simulate larger arrays. I do both."

I think the bug is more than just keywords, I just think the missing keywords are the easiest things to notice screwed up (crafting menus and robots going invisible). I think the cap causes all sorts of havoc to other mods by messing with the ability of the engine to lookup form id.