Pakistan?

[Lisnpuppy]

I am sure (though I don't have links) that the CIA is so far up Pakistan's behind that they can not see daylight. That is all well and good. Do I think it sucks that they very obviously knew Bin Laden was there? Of course. They may have put him on somewhat of a leash...I don't know.

 

The problem is this....they need us...but we need them just as much. The region is so volatile as it is. Destabilizing Pakistan...even is its a morally right decision....would be a freaking disaster for the U.S in the region. There are groups there that obviously do not like American interference and are working actively against us...but we still are able to control them by in large and we DO have operatives there. Smile nice to the world and yank their chains as hard as you can behind the curtain. Would we want our guys there if the country was exploding all over? I think not.

 

This is a dirty game being played. If the U.S. wants to "win" then they are going to have to play dirty pool too. It is repugnant on many levels to me but that is how you win. How they took out Bin Laden is a perfect example. Get in, get out and kill who you have to kill.

 

I did not want my country involved in all this to begin, but they are there. Crying over the spilled milk helps no one at this point. The question now is...what can we do to protect our interest in the area? Perhaps the question should be less about how we do business in the Middle East but WHY we are doing business in the Middle East.

 

As for now...I want the US intelligence operations to get as much info as they can. I consider myself a liberal but every damn time I see one of those soldiers on tv, with a date of birth and a date of death under his picture, a story of a son he never saw, I care less and less about HOW we do business, I just want to get it done.

 

Work at home to decrease our dependence on the area, work there to protect the interest we now have...and bring as many of our team home as possible. If that means letting Pakistan off the hook on this one, so be it.

 

What I was trying to say is that the USA should focus entirely on getting as much information as possible about Pakistan, and nothing more.

 

well that isn't much of a debate topic then is it? LOL If you don't want my opinion on what we can do with Pakistan then so be it.

[Kendo 2]

1) Stop the 3 billion plus dollars in annual aid and give it to India. So much for destablization as India is biggest democracy in the region anyway. If Pakistan thinks they can turn to China for aid let them keep on thinking that. In the meantime we abandon Pakistan and build new air bases and naval stations right next door..in north western India. India also has a vested interest in keeping the area stable and they have suffered from foreign terrorists in the past. They will help us if properly motivated. This will also open oportunies for new trade corridors between India and the US.

 

2) The Pakistani government will not allow US or NATO forces to engage the Afgani Taliban, they only want us going after the Pakistani Taliban in their tribal areas as they are the biggest threat to the Pakistani government. Scratch that agenda and go after ALL the Taliban, staging it from Afganistan.

 

3) Let Pakistan destablize. Yes they have nukes and NO they will not use them. No, they will not allow terrorist to have nukes and yes we will step in and take care of business for them if they get to that point. The whole Western world will be behind us because India, the UK or the EU don't want a Taliban with missiles in their back yard.

 

4) Ignore the blubbering of UN if need be (we do it all the time anyway) and sanction and tarrif Pakistan to poverty levels as a state sponsor of terror. China is already taxed to keep their own people fed so they won't get any help from that front and Pakistan has no real value to industrial nations. What they have anyone can have.

 

5) Plant the seeds of a home grown-opposition democratic movement within Pakistan. They are already there and they are waiting for it. When their revolution starts the US should seize all the Pakistani nuclear resources and dispose of them in an earth friendly and green manner. That will keep American Democrats happy for a few weeks.

 

*Note none of these are serious proposals on my part aside from #2. THAT needs to happen.

[grannywils]

You amaze me Kendo. I virtually never agree with you; or at least hardly ever. And for once I find myself sort of leaning towards reluctantly nodding at some of what you were saying in your post.... and then you go and say you didn't really mean it... What gives?

[Kendo 2]

You amaze me Kendo. I virtually never agree with you; or at least hardly ever. And for once I find myself sort of leaning towards reluctantly nodding at some of what you were saying in your post.... and then you go and say you didn't really mean it... What gives?

 

:biggrin: Because it's opinion and I didn't do any research before posting. I just used what came off the top of my head..like 90% of the posters in the debate threads. I just happen to know what I'm talking about.

[Lisnpuppy]

You amaze me Kendo. I virtually never agree with you; or at least hardly ever. And for once I find myself sort of leaning towards reluctantly nodding at some of what you were saying in your post.... and then you go and say you didn't really mean it... What gives?

 

:biggrin: Because it's opinion and I didn't do any research before posting. I just used what came off the top of my head..like 90% of the posters in the debate threads. I just happen to know what I'm talking about.

 

*wonders if she is 90 or 10* lol

[Vindekarr]

1) Stop the 3 billion plus dollars in annual aid and give it to India. So much for destablization as India is biggest democracy in the region anyway. If Pakistan thinks they can turn to China for aid let them keep on thinking that. In the meantime we abandon Pakistan and build new air bases and naval stations right next door..in north western India. India also has a vested interest in keeping the area stable and they have suffered from foreign terrorists in the past. They will help us if properly motivated. This will also open oportunies for new trade corridors between India and the US.

 

2) The Pakistani government will not allow US or NATO forces to engage the Afgani Taliban, they only want us going after the Pakistani Taliban in their tribal areas as they are the biggest threat to the Pakistani government. Scratch that agenda and go after ALL the Taliban, staging it from Afganistan.

 

3) Let Pakistan destablize. Yes they have nukes and NO they will not use them. No, they will not allow terrorist to have nukes and yes we will step in and take care of business for them if they get to that point. The whole Western world will be behind us because India, the UK or the EU don't want a Taliban with missiles in their back yard.

 

4) Ignore the blubbering of UN if need be (we do it all the time anyway) and sanction and tarrif Pakistan to poverty levels as a state sponsor of terror. China is already taxed to keep their own people fed so they won't get any help from that front and Pakistan has no real value to industrial nations. What they have anyone can have.

 

5) Plant the seeds of a home grown-opposition democratic movement within Pakistan. They are already there and they are waiting for it. When their revolution starts the US should seize all the Pakistani nuclear resources and dispose of them in an earth friendly and green manner. That will keep American Democrats happy for a few weeks.

 

*Note none of these are serious proposals on my part aside from #2. THAT needs to happen.

 

Well Kendo you're usualy the Republican to my social-democrat, but for once I agree more than 50% with something you say. India's a democratic power, and while it's abundantly clear they suck at building things, they arent half bad, regime-wise, and would be the sort of allies we wouldnt need to be embarrised about. Offer em trade deals and it would be very good for both countries, since India's a massive economic, capatilistic power, with a lot in common with the US-Speaking for myself I can see that relationship ending well, though my knowledge of India at the present day is fairly limited. As fore Pakistan, well, it's pretty clear they are a bad choice of ally. They couldnt not know OBL was there, some of them probably obfused intel to try and hide him, and they're trying to cover the asses of known terorist threats. They just arent reliable, and the US needs allies it can trust.

 

I also agree that we should say "stuff em all I see targets I shoot targets" if the insurgants hide in Pakisatan, and are planning targets on our soil, we take them out. Pakistan's not their target-or else they'd let us loose on em, so it's not their call what we do with them.

[marharth]

I am sure (though I don't have links) that the CIA is so far up Pakistan's behind that they can not see daylight. That is all well and good. Do I think it sucks that they very obviously knew Bin Laden was there? Of course. They may have put him on somewhat of a leash...I don't know.

 

The problem is this....they need us...but we need them just as much. The region is so volatile as it is. Destabilizing Pakistan...even is its a morally right decision....would be a freaking disaster for the U.S in the region. There are groups there that obviously do not like American interference and are working actively against us...but we still are able to control them by in large and we DO have operatives there. Smile nice to the world and yank their chains as hard as you can behind the curtain. Would we want our guys there if the country was exploding all over? I think not.

 

This is a dirty game being played. If the U.S. wants to "win" then they are going to have to play dirty pool too. It is repugnant on many levels to me but that is how you win. How they took out Bin Laden is a perfect example. Get in, get out and kill who you have to kill.

 

I did not want my country involved in all this to begin, but they are there. Crying over the spilled milk helps no one at this point. The question now is...what can we do to protect our interest in the area? Perhaps the question should be less about how we do business in the Middle East but WHY we are doing business in the Middle East.

 

As for now...I want the US intelligence operations to get as much info as they can. I consider myself a liberal but every damn time I see one of those soldiers on tv, with a date of birth and a date of death under his picture, a story of a son he never saw, I care less and less about HOW we do business, I just want to get it done.

 

Work at home to decrease our dependence on the area, work there to protect the interest we now have...and bring as many of our team home as possible. If that means letting Pakistan off the hook on this one, so be it.

 

What I was trying to say is that the USA should focus entirely on getting as much information as possible about Pakistan, and nothing more.

 

well that isn't much of a debate topic then is it? LOL If you don't want my opinion on what we can do with Pakistan then so be it.

I don't think you understood me.

 

I was replying to everyone else as well.

 

I wasn't saying that the topic was made as a statement, I was saying that by "long term espionage mission" I meant the above.

[Lisnpuppy]

I don't think you understood me.

 

I was replying to everyone else as well.

 

I wasn't saying that the topic was made as a statement, I was saying that by "long term espionage mission" I meant the above.

 

So that is your thoughts on what should be done? Correct? A long-term espionage mission. What I think should be done and why was in my post. I took my turn to tell how I felt about what we should do about Pakistan and I was not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you (though I think that is already deeply in place.) It is my assumtion that was the point of you opening the topic?

Edited May 6, 2011 by Lisnpuppy

[marharth]

I don't think you understood me.

 

I was replying to everyone else as well.

 

I wasn't saying that the topic was made as a statement, I was saying that by "long term espionage mission" I meant the above.

 

So that is your thoughts on what should be done? Correct? A long-term espionage mission. What I think should be done and why was in my post. I took my turn to tell how I felt about what we should do about Pakistan and I was not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you (though I think that is already deeply in place.) It is my assumtion that was the point of you opening the topic?

That is correct, I didn't mean for my post to be interpreted like that.

[grannywils]

Martharth, you're doing it again.:confused: Just relax and let everyone have his/her say. Not everything is directed at you personally. You opened the thread so that you could hear the thoughts of everyone on the topic. Now would be a good time to open ears and close mouth. I'm saying this just as a recommendation for your pure edification in this process, and am not trying to in anyway tease you or demean you. :thumbsup: