New Thread Introduction Explanation

[amullinix]

Morning! If this is better placed elsewhere, or if there is something that -literally- gives what I am about to ask, please lock/move this thread and criticize me for not properly using the search function (though I have been using it over the past few weeks, and never seem to get anything related to this):

 

TL;DR: Sticky Threads with the following topics: Script/Quest/NPC/Misc. Templates, Modder created How-to's, Modder's Quest Board (a place for proven modders to offer minor, or major, services). Read the rest for the details.

- I am fully aware of the many links moderators, and modders have made. This is a request for templates, suggestions, and a Modder created How-To thread, for preemptive striking so to speak.

- I am also aware of the Articles forum. This request is still valid as described since it deals with a different side of tutorials that don't appear to be covered in Articles.

 

While I was in high school I was a 'techie'. The majority of my classes centralized around the tech wing, and specifics such as: JAVA programming, Cisco networking, HTML design, and two semesters of Computer Graphic Design (I remember nothing from those last two classes). I also did a few off the wall classes for MySQL, PhP Database design and several others that I honestly can't remember right now. I'm not trying to boast any kind of intelligence factor here, just a little background to help justify my reasoning in my request for the following thread:

 

In those classes, mainly with the same teacher, there was one solid 'rule': never spend more time than needed creating a code; instead spend that time editing the code, and fixing it for what you want it to do. What does that mean? Don't reinvent the wheel. Use a template, and start from there (so long as one exists that is).

 

I am a budding modder, I'll be honest. I don't have the knowledge I used to (7 years in the military took care of that). However I am fully capable of editing existing templates of scripts, NPC creations, quests, misc things, because reading a programming language never really leaves you. There are many, many great modders out there. Many of them have created scripts that others use as a staple in their mods (ammo sorting, weapon showcasing, lip-syncing, item sorting (meds, food, seeds) to name a few).

 

I am aware that select scripts are available on the editing related Bethesda websites, but those frankly aren't enough. There are many things people wish they could do, wish they could have in their mod (I am among those) that simply are not readily available. As a community, we tend to help each other out. What I am asking for is just that: help that will benefit the forum as a whole (Nexus wide, not game specific). Instead of going through thousands of threads, I propose one solid thread, whose sole purpose is posting templates of scripts, new creations, basic how-to's for texture and mesh creation and editing (yes, I know those respective programs have tutorials, however simply saying 'follow this one for Oblivion, and just revert a few things to make it work for Fallout, does not give credence to the broadest of audiences). More so, if there are modders out there that are willing to create these things FOR others, that should be posted as well. For instance, I can not edit textures or meshes, I haven't learned the nuances of the language used for TES scripting, but I am over anal with architectural aspects of modding. If there is a flicker in the texture of a cell, if there is a slight misalignment I'll spend an extra 20, 30, 40 minutes making sure it's as seamless as the editor allows.

 

I am not asking for someone else to do the work for me, or anyone else. What I am asking for, are templates to whatever aspect modders find the most intriguing, or a tutorial on something, based on the way THEY do it, and a place where modders can offer their service, without thousands of people creating 'need help' threads. Moderators can manage the thread to keep flamers and those that mindlessly ask for help out of the thread(s) that will hopefully be created.

 

Of course with every new attempt at an idea, there will be flaws (and, I'm sure, grammar and spelling errors). There will be regulations needing to be placed in order to keep credit where it's due, rule breaking posts out, and so on. I hope you read through this, and took it into account. Again, if this thing already exists, and I have just been too ignorant to see it, please direct me to it, and lock this topic. Thank you for whatever time you spent reading this. I hope to see what people think (and I expect the '%10' to flame).

Edited May 18, 2011 by amullinix

[bben46]

This was one of the purposes of the NexusWiki, which took over from the older Articles section. It's growing slower than we had hoped though. Any contributions are welcome. The templates are a good idea, The only one I can think of is one by LHammonds on doing a mod description write up for a mod.

[amullinix]

I have 'grown apart' from wikis for, mainly, the reason you described. It seems a place like the forums, with the amount of traffic it sees on a regular basis, would suit something like that better. Not to say that it doesn't work, or that it ISNT a good place for this kind of information.

 

Templates were what helped me learn JAVA and the other languages. Not having to recreate something is always beneficial. In all honesty, the two main things I wanted people to see with this post were the ideas of a template thread, and the modders quest board thread. I was hoping to inspire a few of the very talented individuals to offer services to people that are great in one area of modding, but not so much in others. Hopefully allowing collaboration, better integration of ideas and so forth. It was a set of ideas that I decided, for better or worse, were things I should try and bring up... just in case.

 

EDIT: An example of what I was trying to describe, can be seen in Cipscis's website, which offers a well made and understandable walk through of several scripting concepts. Something like that, but with specific things (that I brought up in the initial post) that can be shared with the wider audience, in a place they all (mostly) use and are aware of.

Edited May 18, 2011 by amullinix

[bben46]

Unfortunately, the forums have too much information for tutorials and template type posts as they tend to float down and disappear - and no we can't pin them as soon every forum would have 3 to 5 pages of pinned topics before getting to the actual forum part. Everyone who has made a helpful post would like their post to be pinned and while some may be worthy, there would still be far too many. Plus, I have found that most people - especially the noobs that are in a hurry to find an answer tend to skip the pinned topics where the answer is probably posted. :rolleyes:

 

Thus we created the Wiki - It can be browsed, and when some one actually asks they can be linked to the wiki they need instead of being sent to a forum where the topic they are looking for may be on the 12 th page. As I said, the wiki has been growing slower than we hoped, It will need to reach some critical mass before we can really begin to index it properly to make it more useful - because it is not already big enough, people don't want to make wiki articles - catch22. :wallbash:

 

I have found wikis, and the articles that preceded them to be some of the last places people think to look though. Everyone seems to think their particular question should be on the first page of the first forum they look at. And if it isn't then no one has ever asked that question or had that problem before. It has been easier to give a link to a specific location than to send them to a forum where it may have been discussed 3 days ago and is now 9 pages down. The wiki can be indexed and given a semblance of order, unlike the forums which cannot.

[Thandal]

^^THIS^^

 

As one of those who try to direct people to "the answer" when I know the question has been asked before, I find a stable link invaluable. Wiki articles are so much better than forum posts in this regard. They're so much easier to keep current because they can be updated by anyone who has new/better information, and they don't recede into the mists of "... now which sub-forum for that game was it?"

[amullinix]

I also try my best to direct others to 'the answer', or as close as I can while at work. Having a template 'database' of sorts was just an idea. I didnt seem like the wiki was really cutting it. But since that is the chosen medium for that information, then ok. Thanks for reading my posts.

[LHammonds]

As previously mentioned, pinned threads can get cluttered very quickly. I had to clean up one forum that had almost an entire page of pinned threads. I converted them to Nexus Articles and condensed the pinned threads down to just one that had link to all the articles. You get the exact same exposure but without the clutter and the data is in the correct place.

 

The wiki is much better than the Nexus Article database because of its ability to organize and search as well as other helpful formatting tricks. And it is far superior to the forums in terms of posting tutorial-type content.

 

My recommendation is to create these templates on the Wiki as small individual and easy-to-maintain pages..then have a master wiki page that contains the collection of smaller pages...and if necessary, a higher master page containing the various sub-master pages.

 

Doing things like this requires effort at the very base-level building blocks....a single template. Get one done, the move on to another, then another and continue building until you can get them organized better.

 

An example of this is how I created my tutorials. I started with the most basic foundations...creating archives, croping images, converting image types, etc. The more complicated tutorial were able to simply reference the smaller tutorials to stay on topic but give the reader an option to get more understanding if they did not know how to do one of the pre-requisite tasks.

 

Take for example the tutorial called How to make mods. It give a high-level overview of the various kinds of things you can do for modding. As you are reading, if you want to know more about making screenshots, it contains a link to another tutorial about screenshots...which then has links to more tutorials in greater depth depending if you use Fraps to create screenshots or Oblivion's built-in screenshot tool. Or if you want to create new re-textured items, you drill down to that tutorial which covers a lot of material but still keeps on task and delegates related tasks to other tutorials such as how to add an item for sale.

 

What I'm trying to say is that having a grand idea of how you'd like something to work will require you to start building the foundation blocks which are detailed, modular and can be done relatively quick. You then need to stick with it and keep these blocks building until you have something that resembles the building (end-goal) that you had initially designed...the grand idea.

 

Since you are new to scripting, your best bet would be to review what Bethesda has done with their scripts. Get a feel for how the pros did it. Then take a look at some of the most popular mods and see how their scripts look. You will then get a feel for what these basic templates would look like as well as what kind of specific templates you are wanting created.

 

As a programmer, the very 1st thing I do is figure out what the comment code is so I can include comments to document my script...such as:

 

;** Author: LHammonds
;** Date: 5/18/2011
;** Purpose: This script will add a spell to the players inventory whenever all 5 pieces of the armor are equipped.

 

LHammonds

[Lisnpuppy]

You know...I was thinking about the Wiki. I think we should...advertise it more? Like have it posted somewhere in a big block with different colored letters...with a direct link. Up at the top or on the pages of the flagged or pinned threads we DO have....I honestly forget about it at times.

 

Sorry if this was a bit off topic but since we were discussing it and you all seem to want to push it more for more use and growth?

 

:P

[amullinix]

I had a whole paragraph here trying to show that I understand how to start from the ground up, and that I have enough experience in life to have already thought of that before I decided to post, but it honestly appeared more rude and childish than I thought it would. So I'll stick with what I just typed.

 

Is there a team of sorts in place to help translate the help articles and the modding tools offered in the forums, onto the wiki? I don't mean what LHammonds has done; not only has he been working on his own modifications, but he is a moderator (an active one) in the forums already. Is there something there to help... basically force populate the wiki so that it becomes something people will routinely use? Before you answer, please also know that I do understand the work demand needed for such a team. Again, I am not unaware of effort required for my requests.

 

I am new to CS/GECK scripting. Programming in general, I am not. But like I said before, its been a number of years since I have actually coded anything, so my knowledge has now been limited to being able to understand logic in most written code. Because of that lack of knowledge in actually writing it, I have been re-learning what I used to know, and catering it to the GECK's script. For the moment I have been using the information I provided in the link above (two posts before this) and now the wiki, to try and get myself back into familiar ground. I want to be able to participate in the coding side of modding, instead of just sticking to architecture.

 

I hope I have come across tactfully. I'll be honest I was a little upset at one or two responses. Kind of felt like it wasnt taken into account that I am not the average 'this should be this way because it's better' kind of person. I don't enjoy bringing this up, because most who do, do it to gain attention, but being in the military I actually DO understand the whole 'if you have an issue with something, you better damn well have a way to solve it. Else keep your mouth shut.' (Actual quote said to me during the first deployment back in '05) I understand this response might set a tone/standard for how I am regarded in the future; I'm willing to try anyway.

Edited May 19, 2011 by amullinix

[bben46]

Are you volunteering to help populate the Wiki?

 

Remember that we, the people who do answer your questions have no way of knowing what your technical level is unless you let us know in some way. Because many of our questions do come from people with not much experience, we tend to parse our answers to that level most of the time. We are not purposely talking down, just trying to put out the info at a level that others who read the post and who may not be as technically inclined can understand also.

 

Plus, many of my answers to common questions are canned. I just copy and paste them no matter what the experience level is. :thumbsup: