Beantins Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 In response to post #34912955. #34953895, #34976050, #34979745 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote teemu92 wrote: Would you people stop whining already? jeez, this is why i avoid the F4 steam community hub, i would have thought this place was more down to earth but i quess not, time to steer away from comments here too. Quote Dreogan wrote: Yeah, the "You're not giving me what I want when I want it so YOU'RE being greedy!" line gets old, doesn't it? Not to mention...unsettling. Quote Camonna Tong wrote: The funny thing is that Bethesda is one of the few that does it, and yet they get criticized for it. I see way too many that think that we're entitled to the modding kit. We're not. When it comes down to it, it costs millions (resources, licensing, manpower) for them to release the modding kit. I'm a big fan of Witcher 3, but I'm still waiting on the modding tools for that. I don't really see too many complaints for that though. According to them, the SDK isn't really mod friendly at all though, so they might still be working on making it user friendly.Overall, one thing I hate hearing is, "Bethesda shouldn't use mods as a DLC". First of all, even the small DLCs from Oblivion had uses with modding, you know, scripts and such. Second of all, I'd rather have BGS do things, because us modders will have to work around it. It will allow for less conflicts and allow things to be more uniform. Another thing is that Wasteland Workshop and the Automaton DLC were heavily requested features, and I am definitely looking forward to the modding possibilities with them. Generally though, quite a few of us hate to use mods as a base so we can reach as many people as possible.Hearthfire had an awesome building base for certain mods like Skyhaven Temple - Recruit More Blades.To sum things up, I just hate the entitlement and such I see here and other places. Bethesda is a company that likes to make money, and gives us modding tools, which is something they don't have to do. It's something they themselves invest in, and don't have to. It might increase the longevity of the game, but it doesn't help sells throughout. It does on the PC side, and they probably get a couple more million sales because of it, but overall most of the sales are on the consoles. I'm speaking until now, so console modding is definitely a benefit now. Quote kevin939 wrote: I've gotten used to the "Entitlement Era" that we live in now, everything should be free and served yesterday, where things like patience and common sense are non-existant. You just have to /facepalm and move on.As for Bethesda, I've loved just about every game they've made, and I'll never understand people complaining about their pricing, or methods. They have sold me games for $40-$60 that I have spent 1000's of hours playing and been able to have a place to escape some of life's harsh realities, whereas some games you pay that money for last an afternoon or a weekend.They also announced they were releasing a game and it was in our hands very shortly there after. I'll take that with a few bugs over some of these game companies that announce a game and 3 YEARS later you're still waiting for it.I've already gotten my enjoyment from the game and then some, so the CK will just be icing on the cake.-kevin939I agree totally with this, I haven't played FO3 or NV but I love the Elder Scrolls games and I love FO4. Bethesda never achieve quite what they set out to because they aim so high.But I've spent so many hours on their games its unreal, particularly Morrowind back in the day!The focus on single player open-world adventure is unmatched, and they do genuinely care about the fans and the games they make. I can't understand why people got so mad at them when you know exactly what you are getting every time. They AI is never great and there's always weird bugs, but the landscapes and immersive lore just suck you in.Why wouldn't they charge for more content? It's just the stuff they ran out of time to put into the game and need to pay their staff and distributors to get the material out there. The more success they've had the better the games have got and they never had to sell out like Bioware and be absorbed by a monster like EA. They encourage modding and give away the tools to do it for free.If you don't like what they do go and play CoD of some other blockbuster fluff, I'll be playing FO4 for years yet :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trewr Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Bought the season pass right away, can't wait! Edited February 27, 2016 by trewr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baboo77 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Some of the comments on here just make me laugh. BSG is in the business of making amazing games. In order to make those games they need designers, coders, artists, writers, a bunch of support staff, marketing, office space, hardware, software, utilities, insurance, probably some debt etc. All that stuff cost money and lots of it long before they sell the first copy. They need to make a profit cause if they don't there won't be a TES6, FO5 or a new DOOM. If they are delaying a CK in order to sell more DLC (which is a ridiculous theory), why would they even bother releasing a CK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talosthoren Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) In response to post #34909225. #34911540, #34912605, #34914740, #34916115, #34916775, #34923105, #34926225, #34938020, #34938455 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote kebrus wrote: I already bought the season pass but I'm now considering a refund.I hate getting screwed over. They basically delayed the CK to sell more DLCs, thats the gist of it. This is despicable, it shows greed over customer satisfaction. I'm not saying they should not do DLC, but the original promise for the game was the game plus the modding tools, why am I receiving DLCs before the main promise? because the DLC is ready but the tools are not? we are not talking about 3d and 2d assets that could have been done a long time ago, we are talking about whole systems, we are also not talking about a tool that didn't existed before, whatever updates they had for CK should have been a priority over the addons.They knew that promising the CK for fallout would sell more copies but they also knew that releasing it at the same time as the game or too soon after would make the DLC less attractive so they go for the middle ground, they promise one thing and change it later with lame excuses, 50$ for the season pass? can they really deliver 50$ worth of content? are you telling me all DLCs combined with be worth almost the totality of the main game? all of us know this is not the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if they went 2KGames on this and released a "second" season.../rantPS: Didn't they say Q1? or just early 2016? Quote Jinxxed0 wrote: I doubt they delayed the CK for more DLC sales. DLCs are going to sell regardless because they all eventually become requirements for many mods. Especially since these DLCs will add new systems and assets, many mods will make use of them once the CK comes out.No need to be dramatic about it. Delays and unforseen things happen all the times. They're doing something they've never done before which is getting mods onto multiple platforms without breaking down. If you've ever bothered to play around the creation kits for these games, you'll know that they're beyond buggy and barely held together with tape and chewing gum and constantly spewing our errors and always on the verge of crashing. So the more time they spend on this one, the better. Quote kebrus wrote: Why do you doubt it? Have you seen what as been accomplish without CK? Have they released the CK at the same time as the game and a single modder could have done the Automatron DLC by now if not more.Also I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm a game-developer and I'm familiar with the tools from my time with Skyrim. Meteorites do happen and cannot be accounted for, while having mods on multiple platforms is new, nothing else is, in fact, even if that was the issue wouldn't it make more sense to have the tool out there so they would give modders the time to actually create stuff and see whats needed before getting it to work on the consoles? Do you really believe they'll release the CK and console mod support at the same time?of course not...I'm not being dramatic, the consumer should dictate with their money, Bethesda is quietly screwing over with their consumers and they (we) let them. Increasing the price for a season pass is also a first, can you take a guess why they did it? I ask again, do you really believe all DLC combined (these and future ones) are actually worth the base game in terms of scope and quality?The only unforseen event here is how quickly the modders got to create such good tools, gotta have something to remedy that, oh wait, price increase. They are such a bunch of good guys for giving us till the end of the month to pay less./sarcarm Quote RaffTheSweetling wrote: I had that exact same thought regarding the delay in getting the CK to us, and what it represents.I don't think you should mix the issues though - You bought your season pass for DL-content, not for the CK, because the CK was going to be free, and the dl-content was not. You are getting what you paid for first (and at a better price), and getting the free tool slightly later. It shouldn't matter that the free content comes out later, if your reason for buying the Season Pass was to get the dl-content, right?I feel the same as you regarding the CK however. I feel at this point that the quality standard of our mods is surpassing the official content quality and this may be something the developers want to prevent/obfuscate, perhaps to be able to sell products that are clones of mods from F03/NV/Skyrim, and perhaps to avoid looking lazy. I don't know. Quote kebrus wrote: @RaffTheSweetlingYou are certainly right. I got the season pass for the DLC and not for the CK but not getting it is the only way I have to speak with my wallet, I would get the refund for the game if I could and wait it out some time, I only got Skyrim almost a year after release so I don't mind waiting.It's the principle and the potential repercussions I'm against of. I shouldn't feel special because they decided to up the price without any kinds of hints about it, and this is certainly not a discount either, again, I challenge everyone to actually believe they will be giving us DLC almost the size of the full game because that's what it represents. Prices go down with time for games, not higher, the reason season pass even exist is to serve as monetary incentive to create more content. Before season passes all DLC was being sold as standalone pieces (at best packs of them). They actually managed to create demand for the season pass with this stunt, sharing top places with popular games, just think about it for a second, them asking for MORE money for content people barely know anything about that doesn't even exist yet actually competes with top selling available games.If other companies catch this trend we are in for more bullshit in this industry. Quote Dreogan wrote: The CK really doesn't relate to DLC sales in any way. I'm quite confident this CK is slower in coming than it was for Skyrim due to issues related to scope, complexity, and polish. Quote Brandy_123 wrote: I think the delay was built into the model. Its just a good business practice to sell off as much of your product as possible, then the schematics to fix them. I have the season pass and hope to get much more content. I look at it as hours of game time per dollar spent. There has been very few games that have given me so much return play time since Oblivion then Bethesda games.There certainly are lots of problems, things that should have been fixed prior to release. Such is life with Bethesda. They expect the community will fix/append/overcome issues they themselves either can't or wont fix. We all enjoy their works and we just as much enjoy the incredible talent here on Nexus. Those who opt to not get the pass will be left behind like in Skyrim. As the mods become more integrated with the content from them, the less will be available for those who declined the purchase. Quote talosthoren wrote: Turns out software development is a lot of work, and teams have to prioritize their decisions based on what's best for the company.Patience is a virtue. Quote djekmiami wrote: 100% agreed with kebrus on this. They know the capability of the modders now following the modding community's success with Skyrim. Business wise it is not wise to give consumers the ability to create content at no cost rather than only have paid content available. Its really obvious, any notion aside from the aforementioned derives from being naive. Whether it is right or wrong is none of our business as the consumer. Quote ClamSwank wrote: I agree with the original post, Bethesda is on some BS right now. greed greed greed... really disappointing to see it from these guys, changing my views on them.Greed Greed Greed? They develop proprietary software. Yeah, they expect to make money.Iterative project development commonly involves cost reevaluations. You don't always know what the full scope of your project is going to be until you've gone through a development cycle. Edited February 27, 2016 by talosthoren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talosthoren Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 In response to post #35028890. Reveal hidden contents Quote Baboo77 wrote: Some of the comments on here just make me laugh. BSG is in the business of making amazing games. In order to make those games they need designers, coders, artists, writers, a bunch of support staff, marketing, office space, hardware, software, utilities, insurance, probably some debt etc. All that stuff cost money and lots of it long before they sell the first copy. They need to make a profit cause if they don't there won't be a TES6, FO5 or a new DOOM.If they are delaying a CK in order to sell more DLC (which is a ridiculous theory), why would they even bother releasing a CK?Preach it bruthuh and/or sistah Baboo77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsig Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 In response to post #35004165. #35010930 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Poacher886 wrote: What im most interested in is the proposed Survival mode overhaul, read proper hardcore mode!, that all sounds far more interesting, however the 'only save in beds' function is a serious fail!I dont always finish my gaming session when its time for Bed!! Quote canodab wrote: Here's hoping they include a drop-able bedroll. Even if they don't, it'll quickly be modded in. So nothing to really worry about :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted918306User Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 In response to post #34909225. #34911540, #34912605, #34914740, #34916115, #34916775, #34923105, #34926225, #34938020, #34938455, #35036235 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote kebrus wrote: I already bought the season pass but I'm now considering a refund.I hate getting screwed over. They basically delayed the CK to sell more DLCs, thats the gist of it. This is despicable, it shows greed over customer satisfaction. I'm not saying they should not do DLC, but the original promise for the game was the game plus the modding tools, why am I receiving DLCs before the main promise? because the DLC is ready but the tools are not? we are not talking about 3d and 2d assets that could have been done a long time ago, we are talking about whole systems, we are also not talking about a tool that didn't existed before, whatever updates they had for CK should have been a priority over the addons.They knew that promising the CK for fallout would sell more copies but they also knew that releasing it at the same time as the game or too soon after would make the DLC less attractive so they go for the middle ground, they promise one thing and change it later with lame excuses, 50$ for the season pass? can they really deliver 50$ worth of content? are you telling me all DLCs combined with be worth almost the totality of the main game? all of us know this is not the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if they went 2KGames on this and released a "second" season.../rantPS: Didn't they say Q1? or just early 2016? Quote Jinxxed0 wrote: I doubt they delayed the CK for more DLC sales. DLCs are going to sell regardless because they all eventually become requirements for many mods. Especially since these DLCs will add new systems and assets, many mods will make use of them once the CK comes out.No need to be dramatic about it. Delays and unforseen things happen all the times. They're doing something they've never done before which is getting mods onto multiple platforms without breaking down. If you've ever bothered to play around the creation kits for these games, you'll know that they're beyond buggy and barely held together with tape and chewing gum and constantly spewing our errors and always on the verge of crashing. So the more time they spend on this one, the better. Quote kebrus wrote: Why do you doubt it? Have you seen what as been accomplish without CK? Have they released the CK at the same time as the game and a single modder could have done the Automatron DLC by now if not more.Also I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm a game-developer and I'm familiar with the tools from my time with Skyrim. Meteorites do happen and cannot be accounted for, while having mods on multiple platforms is new, nothing else is, in fact, even if that was the issue wouldn't it make more sense to have the tool out there so they would give modders the time to actually create stuff and see whats needed before getting it to work on the consoles? Do you really believe they'll release the CK and console mod support at the same time?of course not...I'm not being dramatic, the consumer should dictate with their money, Bethesda is quietly screwing over with their consumers and they (we) let them. Increasing the price for a season pass is also a first, can you take a guess why they did it? I ask again, do you really believe all DLC combined (these and future ones) are actually worth the base game in terms of scope and quality?The only unforseen event here is how quickly the modders got to create such good tools, gotta have something to remedy that, oh wait, price increase. They are such a bunch of good guys for giving us till the end of the month to pay less./sarcarm Quote RaffTheSweetling wrote: I had that exact same thought regarding the delay in getting the CK to us, and what it represents.I don't think you should mix the issues though - You bought your season pass for DL-content, not for the CK, because the CK was going to be free, and the dl-content was not. You are getting what you paid for first (and at a better price), and getting the free tool slightly later. It shouldn't matter that the free content comes out later, if your reason for buying the Season Pass was to get the dl-content, right?I feel the same as you regarding the CK however. I feel at this point that the quality standard of our mods is surpassing the official content quality and this may be something the developers want to prevent/obfuscate, perhaps to be able to sell products that are clones of mods from F03/NV/Skyrim, and perhaps to avoid looking lazy. I don't know. Quote kebrus wrote: @RaffTheSweetlingYou are certainly right. I got the season pass for the DLC and not for the CK but not getting it is the only way I have to speak with my wallet, I would get the refund for the game if I could and wait it out some time, I only got Skyrim almost a year after release so I don't mind waiting.It's the principle and the potential repercussions I'm against of. I shouldn't feel special because they decided to up the price without any kinds of hints about it, and this is certainly not a discount either, again, I challenge everyone to actually believe they will be giving us DLC almost the size of the full game because that's what it represents. Prices go down with time for games, not higher, the reason season pass even exist is to serve as monetary incentive to create more content. Before season passes all DLC was being sold as standalone pieces (at best packs of them). They actually managed to create demand for the season pass with this stunt, sharing top places with popular games, just think about it for a second, them asking for MORE money for content people barely know anything about that doesn't even exist yet actually competes with top selling available games.If other companies catch this trend we are in for more bullshit in this industry. Quote Dreogan wrote: The CK really doesn't relate to DLC sales in any way. I'm quite confident this CK is slower in coming than it was for Skyrim due to issues related to scope, complexity, and polish. Quote Brandy_123 wrote: I think the delay was built into the model. Its just a good business practice to sell off as much of your product as possible, then the schematics to fix them. I have the season pass and hope to get much more content. I look at it as hours of game time per dollar spent. There has been very few games that have given me so much return play time since Oblivion then Bethesda games.There certainly are lots of problems, things that should have been fixed prior to release. Such is life with Bethesda. They expect the community will fix/append/overcome issues they themselves either can't or wont fix. We all enjoy their works and we just as much enjoy the incredible talent here on Nexus. Those who opt to not get the pass will be left behind like in Skyrim. As the mods become more integrated with the content from them, the less will be available for those who declined the purchase. Quote talosthoren wrote: Turns out software development is a lot of work, and teams have to prioritize their decisions based on what's best for the company.Patience is a virtue. Quote djekmiami wrote: 100% agreed with kebrus on this. They know the capability of the modders now following the modding community's success with Skyrim. Business wise it is not wise to give consumers the ability to create content at no cost rather than only have paid content available. Its really obvious, any notion aside from the aforementioned derives from being naive. Whether it is right or wrong is none of our business as the consumer. Quote ClamSwank wrote: I agree with the original post, Bethesda is on some BS right now. greed greed greed... really disappointing to see it from these guys, changing my views on them. Quote talosthoren wrote: Greed Greed Greed? They develop proprietary software. Yeah, they expect to make money.Iterative project development commonly involves cost reevaluations. You don't always know what the full scope of your project is going to be until you've gone through a development cycle.With adding in the survival mode, they probably had to delay the CK. 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Poacher886 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 In response to post #35004165. #35010930, #35036470 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Poacher886 wrote: What im most interested in is the proposed Survival mode overhaul, read proper hardcore mode!, that all sounds far more interesting, however the 'only save in beds' function is a serious fail!I dont always finish my gaming session when its time for Bed!! Quote canodab wrote: Here's hoping they include a drop-able bedroll. Quote Tsig wrote: Even if they don't, it'll quickly be modded in. So nothing to really worry about :)I guess its easily solved, but again the need to sleep or even lie on a bed to save is a pointless feature....I might be about to take on a group of bandits haven sneaked my way up close....decide i dont have the 'real time' left to engage this session, and decide to save the game for next time, but no, i have to unpack a bed roll and sleep!Its just a dumb move Beth regardless, survival mode is about the RPG elements and gameplay that it envolves as opposed to just making it harder as a game in general, naturally it does by default. but not by restricting your gameplay, but adding requirements that are more true to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNewcenstein Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 In response to post #35028890. #35036275 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Baboo77 wrote: Some of the comments on here just make me laugh. BSG is in the business of making amazing games. In order to make those games they need designers, coders, artists, writers, a bunch of support staff, marketing, office space, hardware, software, utilities, insurance, probably some debt etc. All that stuff cost money and lots of it long before they sell the first copy. They need to make a profit cause if they don't there won't be a TES6, FO5 or a new DOOM.If they are delaying a CK in order to sell more DLC (which is a ridiculous theory), why would they even bother releasing a CK? Quote talosthoren wrote: Preach it bruthuh and/or sistah Baboo77.$750 MILLION in sales in the first 24 hours and they haven't cleared a profit? Where'd the development money go then, cuz it sure ain't in the game.Truth is, they're holding the CK back because they know that the top modders will put out something that beats the crap out of the DLC their interns made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren10 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 In response to post #35028890. #35036275, #35048520 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Baboo77 wrote: Some of the comments on here just make me laugh. BSG is in the business of making amazing games. In order to make those games they need designers, coders, artists, writers, a bunch of support staff, marketing, office space, hardware, software, utilities, insurance, probably some debt etc. All that stuff cost money and lots of it long before they sell the first copy. They need to make a profit cause if they don't there won't be a TES6, FO5 or a new DOOM.If they are delaying a CK in order to sell more DLC (which is a ridiculous theory), why would they even bother releasing a CK? Quote talosthoren wrote: Preach it bruthuh and/or sistah Baboo77. Quote DrNewcenstein wrote: $750 MILLION in sales in the first 24 hours and they haven't cleared a profit? Where'd the development money go then, cuz it sure ain't in the game.Truth is, they're holding the CK back because they know that the top modders will put out something that beats the crap out of the DLC their interns made.It may be semantics, but I don't think they are delaying the CK in order to sell more DLC, I rather think it was the marketing strategy all along to stretch profits as far into the future as possible. That isn't ridiculous, it's just business 101, and lines up with the first paragraph of your comment. Bethesda has decided that it makes more financial sense to wait until a DLC or two have been released before releasing the CK. The DLC's represent a nice boost in sales, while the CK represents better longevity of the product. Profits and staying power are both integral to the success of a company. Any delays we see are not on purpose so much a byproduct of trying to do so much with the time they have. Many departments given tight deadlines..it all has to come together almost miraculously tbh. One small delay in development/implementation of one thing, means a snowball effect everywhere else. Then the PR department has to come out and sell us on the idea that the delays are really a good thing after all...fun job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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