Homosexuality in Skyrim

[csbx]

Well, theres certainly some stereotyping coming out here. Just because Uthgerd is "butch" as you put it doesn't necessarily mean she's a lesbian. You simply can't categorize people like that. (And Aela or Nadia or Ria the fully paid up Companions warriors aren't? Why? Because they're attractive?) :rolleyes:

 

Speaking from personal experience you literally wouldn't know until they told you. :armscrossed:

 

Given the limited data we have to work with about a given skyrim npc, you're right--it's kind of absurd to think we can deduce who is gay or not. But if we're talking about personal probabilities, it just seems unreasonable to ignore characteristics that generally correlate in a given way. I don't know that cicero, e.g. is gay, but if all I have to go on is a voice, clothing, and a few lines of text, I'll drop my bets on him rather than pretend that in general up is down and down is up and Farkas is the gay one. This doesn't mean that Farkas isn't gay, just that it's simply more likely that Cicero is. Er. And Uthgerd, who, as far as I know, literally uses male animations in the game.

[soupdragon1234]

 

And Uthgerd, who, as far as I know, literally uses male animations in the game.

 

So does Lydia, does that make her a lesbian too? Most of the female armoured types do its simply the mechanics of the way animations work they didn't bother to create separate animations.

Edited March 13, 2016 by soupdragon1234

[csbx]

 

 

And Uthgerd, who, as far as I know, literally uses male animations in the game.

 

So does Lydia, does that make her a lesbian too? Most of the female armoured types do its simply the mechanics of the way animations work they didn't bother to create separate animations. Or is she exempt because of her looks? It seems to me you're making a lot of generalisations based on not much more than hearsay and honestly, stereotypes. (Cicero I'll pass on as I havn't actually completed any of the DB quests)

 

 

The OP presents a question so we can help with his mod. He wants our best guesses at who is gay. He's not asking us to declare 100% that someone is gay or not gay. Stereotypes usually originate from observations over time. They aren't always correct, but they help us guess in the absence of information.

 

Question: I tell you one person is behind door # 1 and another person is behind door # 2. I then tell you that door # 1 dude has dirt on his boots and door # 2 dude is wearing shoes without dirt on them. I then ask you to choose the door of the guy you would guess is the construction worker. $1000 is the prize. I hazard to say that you won't throw up your hands and guess the guy with clean shoes is the construction worker. This doesn't mean that you think all construction workers have dirty shoes OR that people with clean shoes can't be construction workers. This is a matter of personal probability.

 

It's also a matter of observation over a lifetime. I'm okay with your having different observations and different personal probabilities.

 

Edit: I was also curious about why you have to defer judgment about Cicero until you see him in game. Aren't you implying that there in fact are certain displays or affectations (stereotypes) that are acceptable to use in making this kind of judgment ?

Edited March 13, 2016 by csbx

[soupdragon1234]

Guesses are not always accurate, far from it. But if he wants a mod full of stereotypes then you're completely right, thats entirely his business. :sleep:

 

Edit: I was also curious about why you have to defer judgment about Cicero until you see him in game. Aren't you implying that there in fact are certain displays or affectations (stereotypes) that are acceptable to use in making this kind of judgment ?

 

 

How can I make a judgment about anything that I have limited or no experience of? It wasn't me who implied he was gay. :ermm:

[skyquest32]

The OP presents a question so we can help with his mod. He wants our best guesses at who is gay. He's not asking us to declare 100% that someone is gay or not gay. Stereotypes usually originate from observations over time. They aren't always correct, but they help us guess in the absence of information.

 

Question: I tell you one person is behind door # 1 and another person is behind door # 2. I then tell you that door # 1 dude has dirt on his boots and door # 2 dude is wearing shoes without dirt on them. I then ask you to choose the door of the guy you would guess is the construction worker. $1000 is the prize. I hazard to say that you won't throw up your hands and guess the guy with clean shoes is the construction worker. This doesn't mean that you think all construction workers have dirty shoes OR that people with clean shoes can't be construction workers. This is a matter of personal probability.

 

It's also a matter of observation over a lifetime. I'm okay with your having different observations and different personal probabilities.

 

Edit: I was also curious about why you have to defer judgment about Cicero until you see him in game. Aren't you implying that there in fact are certain displays or affectations (stereotypes) that are acceptable to use in making this kind of judgment ?

 

 

 

I can tell because homosexuality in my view, in my theory, is genetic, or caused by upbringing or trama...I'm good at picking stuff up, I can mostly tell even a persons race over the phone, or even if a man is a priest or a teacher, or officer.. they are always like...how did you know? Fun at parties.

 

Its like fin said in the last dark tower book, telemetry doesn't lie. Its not really new age to think of using the scientific method, based on observations and past examples, using deduction logic and reason.

 

There are however exceptions to everything.

[iXenite]

Wow theres certainly some stereotyping coming out here. And just because Uthgerd is "butch" as you put it doesn't necessarily mean she's a lesbian. You simply can't categorize people like that. (And Aela or Nadia or Ria the fully paid up Companions warriors aren't? Why? Because they're attractive?) :rolleyes:

 

Speaking from personal experience you literally wouldn't know until they told you. :armscrossed: I've always suspected the Companions women of being more than merely furries but thats really the point of the game being a blank slate your imagination can wander wherever it decides to go.

 

As for Sapphire not being one because she's not butch enough and clearly needs a strong man to take care of her... if you want a mod full of cliche's thats your business I guess.

 

While it is true that it is not ideal to use stereotypes to make judgements about people, to say that there is not some truth in stereotypes is incredibly naive. I actually have gay friends, and gay work associates that fall into a lot of the stereotypes associated with gay people.

 

Are they bad people because they fall into these "stereotypical" categories? No.

 

Do I think less of them because they fall into these "stereotypical" categories? No.

 

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. These are fictional characters that exist in a fictional world. There is no written material on the subject matter that is being discussed here in regards to the characters mentioned. The only data we have in regards to their sexual orientation is Bethesda's inability to decide, thus, everyone is bisexual. It has been already stated why some of us find this to be an objectionable design decision.

 

If modders were not allowed to make assumptions on things in regards to the games they mod, I would bet there would be a fair number of mods that would not exist. You also make a lot of assumptions on the mindset and opinions of those in this thread. I don't recall anyone saying they thought Cicero and Uthgerd were the only potentially gay individuals in the game.

 

I know in my specific case, I chose to only list one character (Uthgerd) because I didn't have the time to ponder the potential sexual orientation of marriageable character in the game. I did however second Cicero's nomination, but upon further reflection, he may be asexual or a necrophiliac.

 

Also, Aela does actually have some in-game evidence to suggest that she is at least bisexual. Her alleged romance with Skjor eliminates her as a candidate for being strictly a lesbian.

[skyquest32]

 

Wow theres certainly some stereotyping coming out here. And just because Uthgerd is "butch" as you put it doesn't necessarily mean she's a lesbian. You simply can't categorize people like that. (And Aela or Nadia or Ria the fully paid up Companions warriors aren't? Why? Because they're attractive?) :rolleyes:

 

Speaking from personal experience you literally wouldn't know until they told you. :armscrossed: I've always suspected the Companions women of being more than merely furries but thats really the point of the game being a blank slate your imagination can wander wherever it decides to go.

 

As for Sapphire not being one because she's not butch enough and clearly needs a strong man to take care of her... if you want a mod full of cliche's thats your business I guess.

 

While it is true that it is not ideal to use stereotypes to make judgements about people, to say that there is not some truth in stereotypes is incredibly naive. I actually have gay friends, and gay work associates that fall into a lot of the stereotypes associated with gay people.

 

Are they bad people because they fall into these "stereotypical" categories? No.

 

Do I think less of them because they fall into these "stereotypical" categories? No.

 

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. These are fictional characters that exist in a fictional world. There is no written material on the subject matter that is being discussed here in regards to the characters mentioned. The only data we have in regards to their sexual orientation is Bethesda's inability to decide, thus, everyone is bisexual. It has been already stated why some of us find this to be an objectionable design decision.

 

If modders were not allowed to make assumptions on things in regards to the games they mod, I would bet there would be a fair number of mods that would not exist. You also make a lot of assumptions on the mindset and opinions of those in this thread. I don't recall anyone saying they thought Cicero and Uthgerd were the only potentially gay individuals in the game.

 

I know in my specific case, I chose to only list one character (Uthgerd) because I didn't have the time to ponder the potential sexual orientation of marriageable character in the game. I did however second Cicero's nomination, but upon further reflection, he may be asexual or a necrophiliac.

 

Also, Aela does actually have some in-game evidence to suggest that she is at least bisexual. Her alleged romance with Skjor eliminates her as a candidate for being strictly a lesbian.

 

No one is implying any judgement about that, just telling people to use logic and reason, you are correct of course. For the record, some of the most talented artist in the world have been gay, like David Bowie (bi) Freddie mercury, and Oscar wilde . Its not a reflection on there talent or character its an observation.

[iXenite]

The primary purpose of my last post was to stress that stereotypes are not entirely negative, nor are they inherently lacking of any truth.

[skyquest32]

The primary purpose of my last post was to stress that stereotypes are not entirely negative, nor are they inherently lacking of any truth.

yes, was just agreeing.

[iXenite]

I had assumed you were agreeing with me. I just thought I'd clarify to be sure. Either way, glad to know you get what I mean. :)