Hair Problem

[Rheezu]

**My apologies if it's posted in the wrong section**

 

I am currently having difficulties with the process of getting the hair to properly work in Oblivion. My hair contains 2 mesh objects with a seperate texture of its own, and are properly aligned to look like a normal hair (in Blender). I have tried with a single mesh (an already combined object), however it did not look as good with the hair textures due to the strange UV map layout, so I had to resort to using 2 separate hair mesh, scale and fit them together and combine, although I'm not certain if I even combined the 2 objects correctly, but it looked simple enough in Blender.

 

Here's an image of what happens in the game (Sorry, I'm using nifskope to alternatively display the errors in the hair, do not have access to Oblivion on laptop):

 

http://i55.tinypic.com/1692tud.jpg

 

The problem I have is that invisible, or transparent gaps/holes in the hair. That is what appears in Oblivion, so you can see through the hair and see my bald-headed character, yet other parts of the hair looked somewhat okay. Initially I believed there was something wrong with the hair textures, so I tried readjusting the UV placements. It looked like it was fixing it, cause I filled the black/alpha spots and moved/scaled it to an area without any alpha, and the invisible gaps are being filled. The hair started to look normal... However, despite doing that method, after loading up Oblivion it still had the invisible gaps in the hair.

 

So I ask, what can the problem be and what causes this? Is there something I may be perhaps missing somewhere? An incorrect value of settings? I've spent a great deal of time trying to figure out the issue and had no luck.

 

The steps I've already attempted, yet still did not remedy the issue:

- Combined mesh in blender, and exported and re-imported with nifskope

- Combined mesh in nifskope & even combining the branch into one

- Proper texture conversion (i.e. alpha channels checked, proper format settings when converted to .dds for the _hl, _hh, _n files)

- Used an existing hair mesh and replaced it with a new mesh via blender & nifskope

 

P.S. Hair model is TS3

Edited May 27, 2011 by Rheezu

[Fumofumo]

It's a face sorting issue. When you import the mesh, the faces get reordered and render improperly. The mesh probably shouldn't be in two pieces either if it uses the same texture. Anyway, stick a build modifier on it in Blender and flip through the numbers and you'll see how the hair forms. It should build inner to outer, anything otherwise will create issues with the alpha. Here is a tutorial by Vorna for Dragon Age, although the same methods apply since, well, it is Blender after all. There is also another one on TESAdventures Oblivion Tutorials section if you are a member there.

[Rheezu]

My mesh have 2 separate textures, unless you know a way to combine the two textures into one and have the UV maps fit to them both somehow?

 

Sorry, I'm rather a novice with the use of Blender as far as hair mesh goes anyway. Thank you for the reply though, I'll follow those tutorials and see how it goes.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Rheezu

[Fumofumo]

Hmm. Well, you can combine the two textures into one by doubling the height of one in Photoshop or Gimp then pasting the second texture over. Then in Blender, you can select all the vertices on the UVMap, scale their height to half. One mesh would be the top, the other would be the bottom and it should more or less work.

[Rheezu]

It appears that scaling the UVMaps to fit the larger sized hair textures (that are combined as you've said), seems to reduce its quality. I'm not sure why, but it kinda looks like the hair texture, regardless of what size I save it as, will be auto-sized in NifSkope thus reducing the quality a bit. =.=

 

Anyway, I've followed the tutorials on face sorting, and it doesn't seem to be doing much for my hair mesh. Perhaps I may have done the steps incorrectly, or something. I kind of need someone now who has worked with Sims3 or Rosesims hair that can assist me with importing it properly, seeing how the tutorials available here for importing sims hair doesn't look like it does the trick for me. Regardless, I'm willing to follow more advice and suggestions to remedying this issue. I really would like to get my new hair style up and running properly. Also, yes, the issue at the moment is still having those invisible spots in my hair, despite applying methods like face sorting, UVMap adjustments, convert with proper settings for hair textures and etc.

 

Once again, thank you for your kind assistance. It has at least allowed me to gain some experience when I happen to decide to convert more hair styles for Oblivion.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Rheezu

[GrindedStone]

Uh can't you just open it with blender, then export it as a .nif for Oblivionz, or import it into a Oblivionz mesh

 

As many hairs as Oblivionz has, I wouldn't waste much time if it doesn't work move on, an come back later.

Edited May 29, 2011 by GrindedStone

[Rheezu]

I wish it were simple as that, but I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. =.=;

 

Sure, Oblivion has many hair styles, but those tend to be commonly used when it's widely available to the public. I'd rather have a unique hair style that fewer people use, due to the difficulty of importing hairs from a different game, just so I can have a unique character and proudly display it, knowing that I actually took the time and effort to actually convert the hairs myself (plus other people who helped with the process).

Edited May 29, 2011 by Rheezu

[Ghogiel]

It appears that scaling the UVMaps to fit the larger sized hair textures (that are combined as you've said), seems to reduce its quality. I'm not sure why, but it kinda looks like the hair texture, regardless of what size I save it as, will be auto-sized in NifSkope thus reducing the quality a bit. =.=

AFAIK nifskope will not auto resize textures, unless perhaps they are greater 4096, I am pretty sure I have experimented with textures of such size and never noticed an issue. with th 2x1 vs 1x1 texture, I have actually noticed a blurred effect in game, and actually avoid them where ever possible, though again I have had great results with non 1x1 format textures... not exactly sure WHY that is though. great mystery. Also forget nifskopes renderer, while it is handy it is not the renderer that Beth games use, and has caused people, including myself issues if that is solely all your information is based on, test in game.

 

However your alpha sorting issue will not be fixed in game. As stated that is the vertex number index not being ordered correctly for correct alpha blend rendering. As a little note from experience, this can be the actual alpha flag you have set as well. Though the default flag should work,you can try other flags, many people use flag 4845. I have also had good success with other flags in fallout

 

And in fallout, a very similar alpha sorting issue can be caused by the shader flag set up. But I still think you are wanting to fix the alpha sorting, unless you want to use alpha test.. which will fix your issues, but you don't want to do that because it looks crap on hair, you want an alpha blend solution.

 

Anyway, I've followed the tutorials on face sorting, and it doesn't seem to be doing much for my hair mesh. Perhaps I may have done the steps incorrectly, or something. I kind of need someone now who has worked with Sims3 or Rosesims hair that can assist me with importing it properly, seeing how the tutorials available here for importing sims hair doesn't look like it does the trick for me. Regardless, I'm willing to follow more advice and suggestions to remedying this issue. I really would like to get my new hair style up and running properly. Also, yes, the issue at the moment is still having those invisible spots in my hair, despite applying methods like face sorting, UVMap adjustments, convert with proper settings for hair textures and etc.

 

Once again, thank you for your kind assistance. It has at least allowed me to gain some experience when I happen to decide to convert more hair styles for Oblivion.

 

Have you tried manually sorting the vertex order by attaching all the planes together from inside out? ? I haven't read the tutorials linked, so ignore me if that avenue has already been explored.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Ghogiel

[Fumofumo]

I'm assuming you didn't do it right if it didn't work. Try and try again, its hard to see if it's actually doing anything since you get no confirmation of whether or not the layer is now first to sort besides if you were to use a Build Modifier. Here is one of my conversions as an example with the sorting done properly. This mesh specifically is Anto's Coolsims 90.

 

http://i.imgur.com/6PfuL.jpg

 

The Alpha Property should already default to the property settings but if it isnt, it should be 4845 with SRC Alpha and SRC Inverse Alpha. Enable Blending and Enable Testing should both also be checked. A Threshold isn't needed when you do this right as it simply attempts to reduce layering issues while also creating jagged edges. Oh, and if doubling the texture space based on height reduces the quality of the texture, then raise the width. So if your textures are 1024x1024, use a 2048x2048 blank square and paste the textures on there in opposite corners then move the UV Maps accordingly.

[Ghogiel]

oh yeah... don't strippify at export. the stripper( :tongue: ) will likely fubar the vertex number order. export as a shape not a strip