Calzien Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 If you've sided with the Brotherhood you probably know what happens after you finish "Outside The Wire" and retrieve the holotape. Warning, if you haven't stop reading because I am giving spoilers. All good? Okay. So, not long after giving Ingram the holotape a few missions later you discover that Paladin Danse is a synth. Maxon orders you to execute him and from there you can convince Elder Maxon to spare him but at the cost of Danse's exile. It all stems back to that holotape which makes me wonder, what if you leave the Institute without gathering the data? Is it possible to relay out without the data? I'm actually curious if this is possible, be banished but don't insert the holotape before you escape. Without the data it will never be revealed that Danse is a synth allowing you to theoretically bypass the quest "Blind Betrayal". That is unless they somhow have a means of magically discovering this without the holotape. So my thoughts are has anyone tried this? The terminal is right there in front of you as you first enter so there's little reason or thought to NOT obtain the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyrusAmell Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I believe there is a point where the Brotherhood demands this data before allowing you to progress. No getting around them by just going to the Minutemen as you will the just have to ask Sturges for the data you had retrieved on his behalf. For you to gain ranks in the Brotherhood, and complete their storyline, you would need to take Danse's place as Paladin. Ergo, the need to set these events in motion. Some people have pointed out that you can end the game without killing off any factions save the Institute if you side with the Minutemen at the right time. In this instance, Danse will give you the same congratulations speech he always does, but on the Prydwen as a full-fledged paladin. But this ending seems difficult and certainly non-immersive to get to so I would not bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkiev Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Some people have pointed out that you can end the game without killing off any factions save the Institute if you side with the Minutemen at the right time. In this instance, Danse will give you the same congratulations speech he always does, but on the Prydwen as a full-fledged paladin. But this ending seems difficult and certainly non-immersive to get to so I would not bother. Oh I dunno... on Desdamona's advice, I switched to the minutemen from the railroad after I got banished from the Institute for ratting them out to the BOS for the Mass Fusion mission. I hadn't handed in Blind Betrayal to Maxson after sparing Danse, so didn't trigger Tactical Thinking where you speak to Kells to become enemies with the RR. (Well, actually I did initially, but went back to an earlier save since my char would never betray the RR and Kells didn't give her a choice.) At that point, I just continued with the Minuteman Ending up until the end and all 3 factions are on friendly terms. Since I never went hostile to the BOS, they weren't part of the enemy waves against which I had to defend the Castle and, afaik, also since I'm not hostile to the BOS, the MM quest to blast the Prydwin will never be triggered - which is totally consistent with my char. So Danse is still alive and I'm still cool with all factions 'cept the Institute (which is no more). My char's not a Paladin, but she would gladly give up a promotion to keep Danse alive. But, for destroying the Institute, I got a congratulatory speech from Proctors Ingram, Teagan, and that one to whom you give technical documents. And I can still do Squire quests for Kells, an ongoing fetch quest for Ingram and hand in blood samples and technical documents. In hindsight, maybe I would have been able to become Paladin too, by handing in Blind Betrayal to Maxson and triggering Tactical Thinking but simply not going to talk to Kells. (Assuming the promotion comes from Maxson when you hand in BB, I think so but honestly can't remember 100%) Perhaps the TT mission would have failed, and Kells would have lost his RR-enemy-triggering dialogue, at the point where all my other BOS missions failed (which I think was at Defend the Castle), but I guess I can't be sure. The only glitch being that later on, after sending my char out on one "Kill the Courser" quest, PAM talks as though the BOS has been destroyed and wanted my char to go out and kill a straggling BOS squad. (Which my char also would never do, so I backed up to a previous save and now have to avoid PAM at RR HQ.) But I'd wager that's just a game glitch since I really didn't have to do anything peculiar to get to that point. There's a mod called "Best Good Ending" that has incredibly specific instructions on how to achieve the same thing, and has the player avoid a lot of quests and starting but not progressing in others. It doesn't mention the PAM glitch, although that could be simply 'cuz they didn't play further enough to encounter it. But, yeah, I did a lot of the quests that they say to avoid and still ended up with the BOS/RR/MM on friendly terms. And the quest progression I did to get there made perfect immersive sense to my char. I wasn't even really trying for that ending 'cept for maybe at the very end. For the longest time I thought that, no matter what, your character was going to have to destroy either the BOS or the RR. Wasn't until near the end that I started second-guessing that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calzien Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 I think you're still missing the question. What if you DON'T get the data with the holotape upon first entering the Institute? What if you relay in, head straight to find Shaun, meet Father, refuse his request to join the Institute, and then get banished? Can you head straight for the relay or will it refuse to let you teleport out until you access a terminal and insert the holotape to scan their network? If you can just leave without inserting the holotape then it would be ridiculous for them to deny you to progress through the story since at that point you'd be locked out of the Institute until you prepare to assault the Institute later on. So if you CAN escape without inserting the holotape it should let you bypass the events of Blind Betrayal. You may permanently remain a Knight but from that point Danse should still be with the Brotherhood and you can continue with the story. That is unless they still manage to figure out his identity through other means. My current playthrough is just at the point before speaking to Father so if nobody has tried before I'll do so myself when I get home. The basis of my theory is whether or not you can be banished and escape the Institute before securing the data from their terminals and finishing that quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calzien Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Well I decided to test that theory and the short answer is, no: You cannot leave the Institute while the quest is active. 1st Attempt * Approached Shaun, initiated dialog.* Father appears short after. Shot Father right in the face triggering an escape from the Institue and causing everyone to go hostile.* Fought my way back to the teleporter killing any synths that spawned to stop me.* Got to the door and found out it was locked with a quest marker pointing to it and to the terminal in front.* Accessed the terminal and had no option to unlock the door.* Backed out and saved.* Accessed the terminal again and inserted the holotape. Scanned the network and backed out of the terminal.* Door opened and I could proceed as normal. From that point being as curious as I am I decided to reload the save and see if I could just TCL past the door. 2nd Attempt * Loaded up the save from before inserting the holotape and tried to clip through the door via command console. Teleporter was active and promptly relayed me out to ground level. Instructed to see Maxon or see Preston about the Intitute as normal.* Fast traveled to the Prydwen and spoke to Maxon, told to give the holotape to Ingram.* Found Ingram and spoke to her, no deal, she just said her normal dialog. 3rd Attempt * Opened up the command console and typed in "setstage 0013c640 355" (This is the quest's stage ID that prompts a failure of the quest.) and was told the quest failed.* Tried talking to Ingram again, no luck.* Fast traveled to Sanctuary and spoke to Preston. Told to give the holotape to Sturges.* Spoke to Sturges and it acted as if I had the holotape filled with data already even if I never did that step. So unfortunately it doesn't appear you can bypass the holotape at all and even if I could use console commands to begin "Liberty Reprimed" I suspect it would end up leading to Blind Betrayal anyway. I bet there will be a mod though to bypass it entirely and keep Danse on with the Brotherhood eventually after the Creation Kit comes out. But for now I guess letting the Minutemen bring down the Institute via the ending mentioned above is the best option to keeping Danse in the Brotherhood. Was worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkiev Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Interesting stuff. Thanks for taking the time to report your results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhartman9 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I killed Dr Lee after turning the institute hostile. Not on purpose she just ran in front of my gatling laser and got caught in the crossfire. I thought that would make the BOS ending impossible with no one to rebuild Optimus Prime but surprise there is an alternate they sent me to Diamond city to retrieve. The holotape data is critical to all of the endings so I'm not surprised they make it impossible to bypass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper69 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I let Danse go, but Maxson shot him, before reprimanding me. It didn't seem to affect my standing with the BOS though. I thought about killing Maxson, but was too late. Maybe if I play it through again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midfit Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 If you have done the MM ending where all three factions are still alive, Danse will never unlock fully as a companion unless you finish blind betrayal, but the BOS doesn't want to kill him either. well their is a work around Ive done this a few times and the script is already in game, it's cut content. but after you finish the Nuclear option with the MM use these console commands and you will unlock Danse with out blind betrayal and become Sentinel of the BOS. "setstage BoS305 20" that will start a new dawn "set Danse_AffinityCondition_PlayerCompletedQuest to 1" That will unlock Danse without finishing blind betrayal FYI remove the " before using the console commands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsixkillerx Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 (edited) Bit late of a reply (8000 years late), but has anyone made a quest mod for this yet? (not danse dilemma) Like a way to convince Maxon that Danse is not a synth? Institute is known for lying so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch. Also I'm not sure why Danse staying in the Brotherhood would prevent the PC from being promoted to Paladin, after all the player does, being trusted to infiltrate the Institute, kill the RR, boot up Optimus Prime, plus theres loads of paladins walking around and crashing out of vertibirds, it can't be that hard to keep the promo with all those empty Paladin spots to fill. There are tons of quest mods for other factions, and unrelated, but mods that change the entire questline of Skyrim and their factions. Why has this not been done yet after 9 years? Edited April 7 by xsixkillerx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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