Evolution

[Akrid]

That hard to follow no-matter what side your on.

 

Of course, the Earth is not a closed system, seeing as heat and light can enter it. Thus, the energy and order needed for any sort of evolution is perfectly able to occur.

 

I was just going to mention that! Damn that was going to be my point. If radiation can mutate life, and cause cancer than so can radiation from the sun, only slower than man made radiation. So through out millions and billions of years isn't it rational to think the sun has been causing subtle changes in us, now add that to surival of the best at surviving and you have evolution, right? I just think that's the way it works not nessarly something I read by a professer. I am pretty sure roaches can't fly, when I was visiting familty in florida I sprayed a roach with the wrong spray, the next day they where flying, try it out the next time you see one it's cool. Also I think there is a bamboon or whatever that always ate plant's but when their habitat was cut down (damn greedy humans!) they went out into the plains and started hunting for meat. That is adaptation. And just as we are all diffrent from each other, so will the generations of the future be to ours.

 

Fact's: This was about what you think on evolution, there is nothing wrong with reaserching fact's but I think everyone should have their own opinion based on there interpretaion. Besides if all the answers are out there for one side or the other than we wouldn't need to be debating this.

[Pikeman85]

Acrid, that's not how evolution works.

 

You don't cut down bamboo and suddenly said eaters of bamboo go out and hunt for meat. While it is possible for something that lives mostly on bamboo with only a little bit of meat in it's diet, to suddenly change to mostly meat to survive, the genetics required to digest the meat would have to be present beforehand. So there would have had to be some sort of survival mechanism that being able to digest meat gave these animals before this disaster wiped out their bamboo. The argument that an organism or group of organisms can change (not their genetics over time in a population, but the actual organism) is a fallacy which was disproven about two centuries ago.

 

A philosopher/naturalist thought that if a bear felt the need to fly, in subsequent generations, the bear would slowly grow wings. This is incorrect. Luckily Neo-Darwinism doesn't hold to such a view.

[Akrid]

Apparently squirels felt a need to fly. In any case What my point was is the bamboon's took a major life style change, look at how tigers and other preditors are built for hunting, I am not familier with the bamboons hunting tatics but it needs to act unlike it was "made" to do, Do you suppose they will fummble continusly into the future and never addapt to become more effecient hunters (with claws, don't compare to human's that used mostly progectiles) Well it was a short exsample aof addapting, not evolution, but I think it could start evolution for the bamboon.

I think that when you use a part of your body it gets stronger and if the slow bamboons can't catch their prey there will be only fast bamboons that eat meat, thus bigger legs maybe, maybe bigger teeth, more reasonable ass's and maybe because working together and using tatics will help imensly the out-livers will be smarter, and if one ever realizes that primates (it's family) can use tools easy (I know they don't have poseable thumbs but it beats what a fish or bird can do) If so much as a few succesfully remember how to think ahead, like "I'm hungery"->"want that delishious pig"->"it bites, I got hurt"->"i want to not get close"->"i feel safe with spear" These thoughts can describe feeling, ofcourse a monkey woudn't know the word spear or even sharpen a weapon, but to use like a club is not unreasonable. Well No monkey has ever thought to get a weapon and hunt but they have used weapons (sticks) responsivly with out human intervention, and we all know about the ant stick eating monkey.

[Pikeman85]

Sorry, I thought you said some animal that ate bamboo. But still, the bamboons must have some sort of way to eat meat, before they can do so to survive.

 

For example, cats must eat meat or something with the correct proteins in it, to survive. If a cat were able to survive on plants alone, and most of the meat in the area was eliminated, due to overcompetition or whatever, said cats who could survive without meat would flourish and reproduce, and those who utilized plants to a better extent would pass their genes on more frequently than those who didn't.

 

As for monkeys thinking, some chimps (which are technically of the Great Apes, not monkeys, precisely, just like you and me) have simple stone tools and reed tools.

[rcgamergirl]

To Incanus,

 

If you think the fossil series doesn't support gradual evolution, I recommend looking up these fossils.

 

Australopithecus Afarensis

Australopithecus Africanus

Homo Habilis

Homo Erectus

Homo Sapien Neanderthal

Homo Sapien Cromagnon

 

If you can look at the differences in these fossils from an educational site and still say that there is no fossil evidence for gradual evolution then I will be surprised. I didn't really agree strongly with the idea of evolution at first, but once I saw how much evidence supports it I changed my mind. Anyway, I just thought I should put my physical anthropology course to use... :)

[Pikeman85]

Personally I'm somewhat disappointed no one responded to my thread and tried to point out the flaws in it. I expect some sort of post along those lines eventually, if it isn't allowed to drop, I just figured someone like Icanus or such would feel the need to argue with my evidence.

 

I always like being disproven, makes me learn!

 

Come on, take a challenge! Anyone!

 

Also, had I not mentioned it, teaching the theory of evolution in Soviet Russia for several years to my knowledge was illegal, because it had such /anti/ communist tendencies. Now, I usually don't try to bring religion up in a thread about science, but I just must point out, if you are looking for a good example of communism, read the first few chapters of Acts!

[ILikeMorrowind]

I heard scientists in the past talk about this issue. They said the more and more they studied science, the more and more likely there had to be a God behind this. If one partical of the eye was missing, it wouldn't be of any use. Everything is perfect on the complex human body. Ears are lined up perfectly, eyes, all body functions are working properly. It's too much to say it happened by an accident.

 

Also, proof of God's identity eliminates the idea of evolution. These demon poccessings are real. Casting them out in Jesus' name is real. Demons who hate the name of 'Jesus'. A while ago, I mentored a twelve year old through the school, and his mother ended up calling me one night, saying there was something breathing down my mentee's back. He ended up screaming out the bathroom and ran to his mother's bed. They prayed, and heads started coming out the wall. Both of them could see it. Drawers were shaking in the kitchen like opening and closing violently. They prayed together and the demons were gone instantly. I went over there for the rest of the night just to make sure the kid was safe since I'm a strong Christian. Nothing happened after that, but he couldn't go to sleep til 4am.

 

At my house, I kept hearing breathing behind my door. No one was there, and the breathing was not human. At my mom's house, the sound behind the bathroom door sounded like a wild beast. The bible always refered the devil as a beast.

 

So, what does this all mean? God created the world possibly by this big bang, and evolutionists think its not God but an accident (knowing how the human mind works). Just this alone proves that God is real. I guess everyone has to experience this stuff on their own to come to such conclusions. We're not here by accident but with a purpose :)

[Akrid]

That's it Ilikemorrowind conviced me! I mean how do you explain that?! :blink: Oh my, I have do somthing about all the demons! AHHHHHHH!!! there's really demons!!! Oh my god I'm freaking out!! AHHHHHH!!!!!! :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :help: :help: :help:

[ILikeMorrowind]

hehe. with God by your side, screw the demons.

[Pikeman85]

You say you hear scientists speak of this issue. Whom? Remember, scientist != (that's does not equal) atheist/agnostic or anything else. There are plenty of scientists who are of various religions.

 

As for the eye, of course it would work different than it is! Other animals have it in different stages, some of them with eyespots that can only detect light. Dawkins covers this in his book "Climbing Mount Improbable" (I think that's the title) Remember, evolution = small gradual changes! Anything that is barely a selective advantage will, over time, give those organisms with it a great advantage in the long run!

 

And seeing as there are all different forms of eyes, some less complex, some more complex, it would seem that indeed, the eye can have many different forms, and still work well enough to allow it's user to survive. It, afterall, depends on the environment.

 

Quote:

 

Also, proof of God's identity eliminates the idea of evolution. These demon poccessings are real. Casting them out in Jesus' name is real. Demons who hate the name of 'Jesus'. A while ago, I mentored a twelve year old through the school, and his mother ended up calling me one night, saying there was something breathing down my mentee's back. He ended up screaming out the bathroom and ran to his mother's bed. They prayed, and heads started coming out the wall. Both of them could see it. Drawers were shaking in the kitchen like opening and closing violently. They prayed together and the demons were gone instantly. I went over there for the rest of the night just to make sure the kid was safe since I'm a strong Christian. Nothing happened after that, but he couldn't go to sleep til 4am.

 

 

 

Also proof of God's identity. Hrm, I haven't seen any evidence for any God, not Yahweh, not Vishnu, not Yeshua ben Yosef, and not the Great Cosmic Chicken. If you have such proof (And if you're taking a scientific view of it, you could never have proof of anything, only extremely heavy evidence) then you'd better publish it in a scientific journal as people have been searching for thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of years for some sort of proof of the existance of any deity, and no results have been fielded. Why, precisely is that? Why would an omnipotent being not be... well... omnipotent? An invisible and unseen omnipotent being is not omnipotent, as it never does anything and would have no real power. You may claim that something will happen in the future, but why not now? Makes absolutely no logical sense.

 

As for demon possessions? Tell me you're joking. Surely you cannot think that demons do indeed inhabit individuals? You don't think if something like that happened there would be medical documentation? The closest thing we have are people with schitzophrenia (sp?) with voices in their head and the like. A medical problem, not demon possession, is what is wrong with said people. As for your story of heads popping out of the wall? I highly doubt it and would recommend said people to have their head's examined. I could understand a child thinking a head was popping out of the wall, I had such fancies as a child (including a great terror of vampires) however as an adult I put them aside and embraced reality. Now, I'm not saying the mother is insane. I'm saying that maybe she could be under a lot of stress, or have taken some sort of medication that was acting odd on her. However any story in which demons pop out of the wall is instantly HERESAY. I need evidence that demons actually popped out of the wall... otherwise I'd be believing your story on faith, whereas I could listen to the Muslim, the Hindu, Heaven's Gate, Great Cosmic Chicken Cult, or other religion. All of them have similar stories in some respects. I've been told of demons bothering people until they prayed in the name of their god or gods, or stories of people's arms regenerating in the space of two weeks, with no documentation by medical professionals nor any sort of evidence for it (I asked a doctor friend of mine who lived in the area, although that sort of thing would be on the news)

 

You may believe demons can pop out of the wall. You may think they visited that family. You may think they visited yours. I have seen no evidence for it, and I don't hear beastly breathing in my house or my family's house at night. If I did I would check out the dog. But to assume that the devil is creeping around in your bathroom is a little superstitous (sp?) at best, and possibly a sign of some sort of hearing problem or other medical problem that you should go to a physician about.

 

Quote:

 

So, what does this all mean? God created the world possibly by this big bang, and evolutionists think its not God but an accident (knowing how the human mind works). Just this alone proves that God is real. I guess everyone has to experience this stuff on their own to come to such conclusions. We're not here by accident but with a purpose

 

 

What you said means nothing. It is all heresay and personal view of something which isn't possible to examine more critically and only happens to you, and maybe two others. As for "evolutionists" (Please do not use this word, I see it as an insult. My view on evolution is only a personal viewpoint and does NOT define me, I'm not very different from when I didn't accept evolution) they do not think the world was created by the Big Bang necessarily (and if you accept the scientific definition it did not, a supernova started everything in this solar system) Of course those who accept evolution don't need to accept something such as the Big Bang, because they are completely different theories AS I STATED ABOVE (try reading my post, eh?) And yes, if I experienced demons coming out of my wall, then yes, I may change my opinions on such things. So, my opinion is, if you feel you can get everything from your God that the Bible says you can (You know, the whole faith of a mustard seed will move mountains... although I've seen people with such faith that they cannot see past it not be able to move a large rock) then pray for demons to visit me. I would be quite happy to see such things, because then I wouldn't fear death so much, knowing that I would exist forever.

 

Oh and PS about how the human body is so perfect. It's not. It's ill-designed for child-birth (although you could try to argue your religion's point on this), ill-designed for completely upright walking (our best stance is actually somewhat stooped, it's why we get lower backpain so often.. because we always stand up straight) and the appendix is basically useless.

 

If anyone has any arguments, please, respond.