Pikeman85 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Some would argue that the dolphin brain is more efficient, and capable of communicating/containing more information than ours. I haven't done much work on neural biology (though I plan to have a Ph. D. in it eventually) but I could look it up for you, but again it'll have to wait until after finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojlnir Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I realize this is way off topic, but I can't resist. Have you guys ever read 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?' I'm sure you have but, if not, you should. According to this book (complete fiction) the Earth is a giant computer commissioned by hyper-intelligent trans-dimensional beings (which happen to look like white lab mice) in order to determine what the ultimate meaing of life is. Dolphins are another hyper intelligent race the disappear just before the Earth is destroyed, leaving a note that says "So long, and thanks for all the fish." Absolutely hilarious stuff. Sorry again about going OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Funnily enough I did make a reference to that book in one of the other 'religious' debates that are on the forum, and in a post above I suggested we were all NPC's in someone else's computer game. Call that person 'god' if you like. It's a pretty close parallel. Logically we don't need him but something tells us that we're not omniscient and it's just vaguely possible that perhaps there might be.... One thing I have noticed in these debates is the constant reference to logic and proof. We live in a time when discoveries are coming faster and faster. The more we learn the more we realise we don't know. In the middle ages people produced logical proofs to explain why the sun went round the earth. Until we know everything about everything it is a mistake to discount a theory because it has no proof, nor can you apply logic in the absence of a 'proved' paradigm. I choose not to believe because in my own mind the existence of a creator is improbable to the point of being impossible, and I have my own reasons for thinking that way. But I cannot point to any 'proof' that there is no creator/designer/initiator of everything. The absence of proof of existence is not proof of non-existence, as many discoveries that have turned old theories on their heads has made very clear. Saying 'I don't believe' is as much a statement of faith a saying 'I do'. Neither view can be supported by 'proof'. People who claim to have used logic to discount the existence of a creator are deluding themselves. The human mind cannot comprehend so many important aspects of the question 'logically'. Is the universe finite or infinite? If it is finite what is beyond it? What existed before it was there? What will follow it? What does infinity look like etc. What happens when time ends? So whether you profess to believe or not it is still a matter of faith. All we can offer are personal opinions based on our own decisions. The reason the debate becomes more excited is that those who have chosen the faith of atheism believe they have done so after a great deal of thought, while those who have religious beliefs are merely doing what others tell them. It is true that many 'believers' appear never to have challenged their beliefs even to themselves. (Not that we ever see into another's though processes.) But it is equally true that vociferous atheists appear to be trying to proselytise to reassure themselves that they are not wrong. And that re-inforces that atheism is a faith and not a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikeman85 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I am not so arrogant to say that atheism is not without elements of faith. And I have seen some atheists have a sort of faith. However, if one finds by what in their mind is considered completely logical reasons, without belief, be it with any religion, or atheism (remember, I said in their own mind, so it has to appear logical, with no doubts.. in our common society with questions, this occurs less and less) If someone thinks that something is evidence of something, and they believe, based on what could be called a scientific approach (and this applies to all religions, again) I would say that it is not a faith, but a logical approach to the questions at hand. Unfortunely most religions place faith on a higher pedastool than logic, so people tend not to care about logic reasons for their religion existing, and instead concentrate on faith based "I feel this, so XXX must be true!", which basically sums up most of my indepth conversations with members of the various religions, including a Stanford educated Ph. D. holder who came to speak at my university, who couldn't give much more of an argument than you "Just have to believe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrid Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Does anyone know the story of mormons? I'm not sure how it goes, but I hear it's real ammusing :lol: , espesialy to think people believe it. If anyone knows the basic story could you post please, this might help give another exsample of religon other than Christanity for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikeman85 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I've only read very little of the book of Mormon, but I'll give it a shot. Supposedly the Native Americans were related in some ways to the tribes of Israel, and Jesus, after he was resurrected supposedly came here and spoke to them and preached his gospel, and that was where they got the "Great Spirit" idea. I've also heard they think that their deity is just a being that lives on another planet, but I think that was just a rumor. I am not certain of the truth of this, it is only the small amount of information I have on Mormonism. I've only talked to like 4 Mormons in my existance, and those were years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrid Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 If people don't believe one thing they'll believe another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikeman85 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I think all this argument on religion is amusing because most people don't take the time to research their religion's history or it's philosophy's. I wish half of you had tried to read the Bible in Hebrew/Greek. I've been trying for some time and it reads a tad different to my knowledge. And according to someone with knowledge of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew it does as well :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinJiOh Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 true, but i've never been one to not listen (unless they are totally wrong, in which case i would not know) so usually ponder what religious teachers tell people. Aparrently there was this russian or german guy who set out to prove christianity was fake by his superiors. The country eagerly awaited his return only to find that he had proved it did exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I wish half of you had tried to read the Bible in Hebrew/Greek. I've been trying for some time and it reads a tad different to my knowledge. And according to someone with knowledge of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew it does as well :P And how's that? I've suspected a lot of claims I've seen have either been exaggeration or mistranlation/misinterpertation. I just don't have the time/interest to research every single religious argument in detail. Can you give any examples? Aparrently there was this russian or german guy who set out to prove christianity was fake by his superiors. The country eagerly awaited his return only to find that he had proved it did exist. Full story? I'd like to see how someone could prove all of Christianity correct. Unless you mean that he proved the obvious, that Christianity (the religion) does exist? In which case, why didn't he just take a look at the existence of the church down the street for his proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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