Dr. Corbett Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 No, at this moment I don't feel like arguing your other points. I could prepare a defence, but I'm not a very skilled debator and my point as a sponsor is to be a spiritual guide -- I help out those who have already chosen to become Catholics. What you need here is a catechesist, who is supposed to know the facts on such things. And it's fairly obvious to me that the universe had at least some intelligent design to it. Science is as much an act of faith as religion is to believe; at least for me. It's probably different for you. Just like it's different for me. And, I don't believe Christianity based on blind faith. If nothing had happened to me to correlate my beliefs, and I hadn't thought on it for a long time, I don't think I'd be that good of a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikeman85 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 What's more likely (and I'm not saying I support either of these positions, there are several more, and again, I am an agnostic atheist in every which way I can be, I'm just saying), that a fairly simple universe, with repeating laws, following the laws of chemistry and physics to becomes clumped together and seemingly disordered (remember, order is a subjective view of something. Symmetry is not, though it is still a judgment humans make about something) or that a deity, who cares infinitely about one species. On one planet. In one solar system. In one galaxy. In the entire universe exists and is omnipotent. And existed eternally or created himself. Physics can't accurately touch before the beginning of time. However, assuming that an unlikely thing does because you yourself want to believe it (And I'm not knocking your religion, do what you will) is not a very logical way to exist. As I am all about logic, and seemingly cannot have any amount of faith in said deity or deities like it (I tried for a while, didn't work) I have to accept any evidence of a deity based on logic alone (And I've not seen it) However to view the universe as ordered, or overly complex, or to view humans as some sort of pinnacle of the universe is very subjective, and very arrogant in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormscape Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Peregrine, I believe in them, doesn't mean I respect them. Only gods I respect are the Norse ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Ok, so you ignore the real point of my post and focus on the joke...If your religion did require you to believe in me as god just because I wrote a few sentences, I'd have to question your sanity? Now got any answers for my real questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Corbett Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Not every question is answerable, Peregrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Well, I'd expect the ones I asked to be answerable. I mean, I'm just asking for more details of what he believes, not for any evidence to prove it. And you have to admit, his first post was pretty vague... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Corbett Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Yes, it was. And one of the reasons I bowed out was to have more time to moderate rather than argue... it's like two people arguing in a different language. My proof means nothing to you and vice versa. I figured, "what's the point?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Well, I'd object to that. Your proof would mean something to me, if you could find something that is based on physical laws and not just personal faith. To you, who have your own reasons for feeling the way you do, it might make sense. Those issues can be settled only by a single person, you. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. But it means something only to you. Just like what I may or may not feel about the existence of god is irrelevant. For a larger audience, what is needed is something much broader. Something outside mere personal experience. Maybe that's not exactly too clear, so here's an example of what I mean: Acceptable proof, coming from anyone:X event, the facts of it backed up by sources a,b,c, violates y rule of the universe as explained without god. Therefore it suggests the existence of god. What I don't consider acceptable, at least for a debate:I believe that there is something more than me. I can't prove it, but I just feel something greater. God as described by X religion fits that feeling the best, therefore I believe it is the truth. Make any more sense? The second type is too subjective to be used in a debate, but if you've got any evidence like the first, I'd be happy to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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