Don't like freedom?

[Aurielius]

So kids should be banned from all churches?

 

Look at his posting history. Not only kids, but EVERYONE. People shouldn't have the right of self determination. The government should be making the decisions, not people.

I am afraid I'm lost, I backtracked the thread and still am unsure to whom you are referring to. One thing I am sure is that you are not proposing this concept of governmental overreach.

[ginnyfizz]

@grannywils

I see Conseratives painted with a broad brush on a daily basis on this forum yet concerned posts from you addressing that are nonexistent.

 

Actually Kendo you are wrong, Granny has spoken up against anti conservative bias on several occasions. She may be a self defined liberal but in my humble opinion still has an open mind and on numerous occasions has sided with a moderate conservative point of view. Though I will say the liberal bias of this forum is self evident and only challenged by a small vocal erudite Conservative minority of which I count myself among.

 

But she was pretty breathtakingly condescending on this occasion. It is a constant problem that those on the Left try to imply that Conservatives lack intellectual capacity, and normally Grannywils is the last person I would expect that kind of attitude from, but it came out this time.

 

As for you Marharth, I would expect no different, since you constantly try and make me look stupid and fail every time. You know very well that I was referring to the particular extremist group who are seeking to get circumcision banned...as an anti - Semitic swipe. Stop trying to be a smarty breeches and stop twisting my words.

 

So kids should be banned from all churches?

 

Look at his posting history. Not only kids, but EVERYONE. People shouldn't have the right of self determination. The government should be making the decisions, not people.

I am afraid I'm lost, I backtracked the thread and still am unsure to whom you are referring to. One thing I am sure is that you are not proposing this concept of governmental overreach.

 

he said he was being sarcastic.

[marharth]

@grannywils

I see Conseratives painted with a broad brush on a daily basis on this forum yet concerned posts from you addressing that are nonexistent.

 

Actually Kendo you are wrong, Granny has spoken up against anti conservative bias on several occasions. She may be a self defined liberal but in my humble opinion still has an open mind and on numerous occasions has sided with a moderate conservative point of view. Though I will say the liberal bias of this forum is self evident and only challenged by a small vocal erudite Conservative minority of which I count myself among.

 

But she was pretty breathtakingly condescending on this occasion. It is a constant problem that those on the Left try to imply that Conservatives lack intellectual capacity, and normally Grannywils is the last person I would expect that kind of attitude from, but it came out this time.

 

As for you Marharth, I would expect no different, since you constantly try and make me look stupid and fail every time. You know very well that I was referring to the particular extremist group who are seeking to get circumcision banned...as an anti - Semitic swipe. Stop trying to be a smarty breeches and stop twisting my words.

 

So kids should be banned from all churches?

 

Look at his posting history. Not only kids, but EVERYONE. People shouldn't have the right of self determination. The government should be making the decisions, not people.

I am afraid I'm lost, I backtracked the thread and still am unsure to whom you are referring to. One thing I am sure is that you are not proposing this concept of governmental overreach.

 

he said he was being sarcastic.

I am not trying to make you look stupid, you keep saying that for some reason and I honestly don't know why.

 

I wasn't referring to just your post, kendo said something about how the person trying to get a law passed was anti Semitic.

 

As for kendo, seriously? I have said multiple times why circumcision could easily be considered taking away freedom.

[grannywils]

Its completely logical for you to let the child grow up and decide on their own, not have their parents decide.

 

And effectively disenfranchise Jewish youth from their religion. Like all liberals you're willing to invalidate a religion and religious practice you don't agree with. The thing is, these 'intactivists' are anti-Semetic. They get to have 'their say' while wrapping themselves in the Constitution and wiping their asses with the parts they don't like. TYPICAL and what we have come to expect.

 

 

 

Kendo, I do not want to get into it with you, but you are really annoying the crap out of me. I disagree with almost everything you say, but I do not feel the need to define you as some sort of "flaming right wing fruitcake", or whatever the current term is. You go ahead and believe what you will, but please stop using expressions such as, "like all Liberals". I don't believe you would recognize a true Liberal if one walked up and stood nose to nose with you. We all have rights to our beliefs and to the expression of same. But not all of us believe the same thing or the same way. Argue with those with whom you are posting, and leave the rest of us out of it. I will have my say with you very soon, and then you may feel free to say whatever you like about me, as a Liberal; but unitl then do not deign to assume that you have any idea about what I think or believe.

 

Well there are actually quite a few things about the statements from "Those of the left" that are annoying the crap out of me, grannywils. You and other posters in this thread have done the usual by insinuating that anyone who holds conservative views is ill educated and blinkered "I don't believe you would recognize a true Liberal if one walked up and stood nose to nose with you." That is really rather arrogant. We have had other thinly veiled "Conservatives are thickos" implications in here as well, insinuations that we all like to live in the past, yadda yadda. I am well aware that the Left are always (in their own eyes)right (sorry, British sarcasm again), and that they hold a majority on these forums and do not like us to contradict them, I just wish they weren't so condescending about it.

 

Actually people have the FREEDOM to be conservative, and they even have the FREEDOM to be stupid, sometimes both at the same time and sometimes not, which is not exactly a crime the last time I heard.

 

As for you Marharth, if really want to align yourself with these raving anti Semites just because you have decided that circumcision is sadistic and evil and should be stamped out, then be my guest. Yeah csgators, I guess he thinks infant baptism should be banned in case junior gets dropped in the font.

 

And by the way, yes you DO have to be intelligent to pass the bar exams. I have a first class degree. So there.

 

 

Ginny, you and I both know there is a difference between saying "those on the Left" and "like all Liberals". I was speaking directly to Kendo when I made the remark about not knowing a "true" Liberal if one walked up and stood nose to nose with him. The remark had absolutely nothing to do with his intelligence. I believe him to be an extraordinarly intelligent and well-read individual. I agree with your observation that people have the freedom to be conservative and the freedom to be stupid. Not sure what your point was in making that observation, but nonetheless, I agree.

 

The reason I said what I said to Kendo (not to you) was because I feel that he has been so blindsided by his own beliefs that he is no longer capable of being open minded about the beliefs or views of others. He makes assumptions based on the strident cawings of those he sees in the forefront of certain movements, and calls them the "leaders". From my perspective, he is much too intelligent to engage in that sort of debate. This is the reason I usually do not bother to respond to his postings.

 

He may say what he chooses about me, but I can only take him seriously as a debating challenger if I feel that he is capable of listening to me, not to what he believes I have already said. I read all of his posts, and many others. I take everyone's thoughts on these subjects seriously. I do in fact listen, and I do in fact care about what everyone believes. You already know that. It makes no difference to me if you are conservative or liberal.

 

As far as freedom is concerned, I have many questions I would like to ask the OP. I will do that in a future post....

[HeyYou]

And here we have the basis of 99% of the problems plaguing this country. Each side has their own beliefs, and believes they are 'right'. Each side seems to attempt to degrade the other side, in various fashions. What we have here, is the exact same thing you see in congress, and is why nothing ever gets done. Very few seem to be willing to even consider the other points of view, and simply subscribe to the party line, and that is the end of it. My party says such-and-so, so, that is what I am going to believe, and I will defend that to the death.

 

The Repubbies have some good points, as do the dems, and the libs, and a selection of others. (excluding the commies...... let's not go there, ok?) It is no longer about 'the people', but, about which party 'wins'. Be it passing some law, or defeating, as the case may be.

 

As for circumcision, parents make choices for children, without the childs input, for quite some time before the child has the capacity to make decisions on their own. My parents aren't jewish, but, I am circumcised...... my parents had it done for the health aspects, not some religious 'convenent', or whathaveyou. I don't even recall it happening. (as I was quite young at the time.....) Do I have a problem with my parents making that decision for me? Nope. Not in the least. My parents had my best interests at heart, all thru my growing-up years. There was never any question of that.

 

So, some folks think this is a medieval practice, and wish to ban it, so no one can have their child circumcised? I do not agree with their position at all. As I said before, parents make decision for their children constantly, for a decade or more. Should that be banned/curtailed as well? According to these guys, it sure looks that way.

 

Our society is screwed up enough as it is, what with the 'no responsibility' thing thats been going on since the late 80's early 90's. Taking it a step further, and telling kids they can make their own decisions, as that is the very definition of 'freedom', pretty much guarantees that human life would snuffed out within two generations.

[marharth]

And here we have the basis of 99% of the problems plaguing this country. Each side has their own beliefs, and believes they are 'right'. Each side seems to attempt to degrade the other side, in various fashions. What we have here, is the exact same thing you see in congress, and is why nothing ever gets done. Very few seem to be willing to even consider the other points of view, and simply subscribe to the party line, and that is the end of it. My party says such-and-so, so, that is what I am going to believe, and I will defend that to the death.

 

The Repubbies have some good points, as do the dems, and the libs, and a selection of others. (excluding the commies...... let's not go there, ok?) It is no longer about 'the people', but, about which party 'wins'. Be it passing some law, or defeating, as the case may be.

 

As for circumcision, parents make choices for children, without the childs input, for quite some time before the child has the capacity to make decisions on their own. My parents aren't jewish, but, I am circumcised...... my parents had it done for the health aspects, not some religious 'convenent', or whathaveyou. I don't even recall it happening. (as I was quite young at the time.....) Do I have a problem with my parents making that decision for me? Nope. Not in the least. My parents had my best interests at heart, all thru my growing-up years. There was never any question of that.

 

So, some folks think this is a medieval practice, and wish to ban it, so no one can have their child circumcised? I do not agree with their position at all. As I said before, parents make decision for their children constantly, for a decade or more. Should that be banned/curtailed as well? According to these guys, it sure looks that way.

 

Our society is screwed up enough as it is, what with the 'no responsibility' thing thats been going on since the late 80's early 90's. Taking it a step further, and telling kids they can make their own decisions, as that is the very definition of 'freedom', pretty much guarantees that human life would snuffed out within two generations.

If congress truly believed everything they said then we would be fine, almost everything a congressperson says is paid for, its not that they disagree that nothing is getting done, its that they are paid to do nothing.

[Sync182]

*gets popcorn*

 

You guys are damned lucky this thread wasn't shut down a couple of pages ago for the almost-breach of religious discussion.

 

And it's still possible it may be shut down for the personal attacks going on.

 

Everyone needs to take a deep breath, type their post - and HIT PREVIEW INSTEAD OF ADD.

[HeyYou]

And here we have the basis of 99% of the problems plaguing this country. Each side has their own beliefs, and believes they are 'right'. Each side seems to attempt to degrade the other side, in various fashions. What we have here, is the exact same thing you see in congress, and is why nothing ever gets done. Very few seem to be willing to even consider the other points of view, and simply subscribe to the party line, and that is the end of it. My party says such-and-so, so, that is what I am going to believe, and I will defend that to the death.

 

The Repubbies have some good points, as do the dems, and the libs, and a selection of others. (excluding the commies...... let's not go there, ok?) It is no longer about 'the people', but, about which party 'wins'. Be it passing some law, or defeating, as the case may be.

 

As for circumcision, parents make choices for children, without the childs input, for quite some time before the child has the capacity to make decisions on their own. My parents aren't jewish, but, I am circumcised...... my parents had it done for the health aspects, not some religious 'convenent', or whathaveyou. I don't even recall it happening. (as I was quite young at the time.....) Do I have a problem with my parents making that decision for me? Nope. Not in the least. My parents had my best interests at heart, all thru my growing-up years. There was never any question of that.

 

So, some folks think this is a medieval practice, and wish to ban it, so no one can have their child circumcised? I do not agree with their position at all. As I said before, parents make decision for their children constantly, for a decade or more. Should that be banned/curtailed as well? According to these guys, it sure looks that way.

 

Our society is screwed up enough as it is, what with the 'no responsibility' thing thats been going on since the late 80's early 90's. Taking it a step further, and telling kids they can make their own decisions, as that is the very definition of 'freedom', pretty much guarantees that human life would snuffed out within two generations.

If congress truly believed everything they said then we would be fine, almost everything a congressperson says is paid for, its not that they disagree that nothing is getting done, its that they are paid to do nothing.

 

Yep, they do what they are told to do, like good little puppets. Things need to change, but, as the only ones that CAN make the changes, are being PAID NOT to...... It's business as usual in washington dc.

[grannywils]

Ok, CS, so you posted a map and said something about the least free states in the Union. Then a whole bunch of people said a whole bunch of stuff.

 

What I really want to know is this. What exactly is your point?

 

Do you expect this Nation to become more free by denying the Constitutuion?

 

Do you expect it to become more free by following the Constitution to the absolute letter of the law?

 

Shall we rewrite the Constitution? And if so, who will be the new author. Do you wish to volunteer?

 

Which laws do you think are ok?

 

Which laws do you think are not ok?

 

Who should decide which laws are ok or not ok?

 

Who has the best judgement regarding whether or not the government needs to become involved in a specific matter?

 

If some laws are ok, who should be responsible for enforcing them?

 

Where does the line get drawn?

 

Examples:

 

1. There are those who firmly believe that laws governing who should be allowed to be married to whom should not be on the books. Are those laws ok?

 

2. There are those who firmly believe that their should be laws governing whether or not a woman should be allowed to have an abortion. Regardless of circumstances, are those laws ok?

 

3. There are those who firmly believe that the sale of assault weapons should be disallowed to the general public. Are those laws ok?

 

4. There are those who firmly believe that if you get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle while impaired by alcohol or drugs and as a result kill someone while driving said vehicle, you should pay a much larger penalty than is currently assessed in many states. How about those laws?

 

5. There are those who firmly believe that laws that state that a corporation should be treated as a person should be repealed. What say you about those?

 

6. There are those who firmly believe that someone should be keeping an eye on corporations who have the ability to pollute our national waterways, and that there should be laws to prevent them from so doing. What about those?

 

Now I have given a variety of examples. But I'm only asking for your opinion. What happens if your specific opinion differs from the next guy's opinion?

 

How will these new freedoms work exactly. I just need a little reassurance.

 

 

 

 

[HeyYou]

Now I have given a variety of examples. But I'm only asking for your opinion. What happens if your specific opinion differs from the next guy's opinion?

 

We end up where we are today. :D