Don't like freedom?

[BlackBaron2]

I think the point he and I are both trying to make is that the people who say "liberals hate freedom" are frankly being silly, because those people are the ones who themselves argue for some very extreme social controls. "Liberals hate freedom", and the Far Right types don't?

 

Personally, I'm glad I can go outside without having to worry I'll be burned at the stake for heresy, thrown in a debtor's prison, or locked up in an asylum for holding views contrary to the norm. Those things happened to people in the past and the very Far Right people, not all conservatives, mind, would have them happen again.

[ginnyfizz]

Heresy was actually a religious crime*, and - statement of fact here, not intending to start a religious debate - I have to tell you that the penalty these days is excommunication and (if in holy orders) deprivation and unfrocking. Sorry to disappoint you, but we don't do burning at the stake these days. Even if we vote Conservative as well as say Hail Mary's. Even with a boss guy who used to be the Grand Inquisitor (so to speak). Just as, in the same way, we now have the freedom to practice our faith without being drawn, hung and quartered (or beheaded), and you have the freedom to be.

 

What you please to call The Far Right who would stamp on the freedoms of people to practice their faith, and who would oppress people on grounds of race, sexual orientation, disability, etc, are usually neo-Nazi groups. I know it is nice for Socialists and Left leaners to be able to hurl the epithet "Nazi" to splatter the broad brush over all conservatives, but actually guys, Nazi = National Socialist.

 

 

 

*Although the religious courts had to hand over the heretic to the local sherrifs for burning, I grant you.

[BlackBaron2]

Thanks for bringing up Godwin's Law yourself....and missing the point entirely.

 

Spouting "liberals hate freedom" and wanting to institute utterly guano-level insane social controls such as banning all contraception, making women legal minors, banning mixed-race marriage and so on, is pure hypocrisy. Every time I hear somebody use the "You hate freedom/America (I am beginning to think they equate the two)" line, I get a good laugh out of their pure silliness because if they cared so much about "freedom" they'd stop trying to put pointless restrictions as to what everybody can do with their own bodies (that doesn't cause harm to other people)! They also, funnily enough, like campaigning for the banning of the games this very site supports, usually with a load of the "think of the children" rubbish. So, if you want to accuse other people of "hating freedom" then maybe consider this: if you yourself want to control the harmless (and possibly beneficial to the environment, in the case of choosing not to have kids) things other people do in their private lives, you are a hypocrite for claiming to want "freedom" for everybody.

[HeyYou]

Liberals want to ban contraception, make women legal minors, ban mixed-race marriage?? Really? That doesn't sound 'liberal' to me...... Some of it sounds like stuff right out of the catholic church.......

[BlackBaron2]

No, not liberals.

 

I'm talking about the extremists who go around saying everybody who disagrees with them hates freedom. The TEA PARTY.

[Aurielius]

No, not liberals.

 

I'm talking about the extremists who go around saying everybody who disagrees with them hates freedom. The TEA PARTY.

You can attempt to marginalize the tea party all you want by painting them as extremists but that is a very old Liberal tactic with anyone who disagrees with their world view. If you don't see the world through the liberal prism you are an extremest, get over it the Tea Party is here to stay. Given the overwhelming congressional democratic defeats ( the largest shift in seats since 1948) in state and federal and gubernatorial elections in 2010, the country does not seem to agree with your perspective. Since 2010 was a redistricting year there will be much more to come in the way of change of national course. What Liberals cannot take is that the Tea Party was a grass roots movement that holds no fealty to the Republican Party, they like to think that the grass root concept is all theirs and are perturbed when others use it too. Just for the record the part of the Tea Party that I do agree with is fiscal responsibility, they (TP) are the only large group with that overarching intent currently on the political scene. The Liberals may hold on to 1600 Pennsylvania ave but the Conservatives will have all the rest, you cannot enact a liberal agenda when no bills cross your desk to fit that ideology. Eventually, even with Obama's Justice Dept. stall tactics his Healthcare Bill will reach the Supreme Court and that too will ruled as unconstitutional.

 

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/4526/teapartymap.gif

[RZ1029]

I'd just like to take a moment to introduce you all to my favorite (and arguably appropriate) game by the name of Liberal Crime Squad.

 

http://www.bay12games.com/lcs/

 

Produced by Bay 12 Games, the makers of Dwarf Fortress, if you've heard of that. Play that for a week and I guarantee you you will understand the liberal agenda perfectly while learning how to combat the evils of conservatism.

 

(That was all entirely sarcastic. That game is freaking hilarious, though, if you have a sense of humor when it comes to politics and an ability to take the foul language and amusing encounters without being offended.)

 

Seriously, though. Tea Party gets painted by the media as a bunch of idiots or nutjobs more often than not, because you get those idiots in every crowd. Then you have to add the issue the Tea Party had with racists in the beginning, who were associating themselves with the group to push their own agenda. I'm with Aurelius on this one, I mostly support them because they're actually trying to get the government to take some responsibility for their spending. That, and the whole free market thing, I'm a fan of capitalism.

Edited June 18, 2011 by RZ1029

[HeyYou]

All deficit spending must be eliminated immediately.

 

Interesting idea, but, implementing that is going to be tad tricky. Given the current state of affairs, this is an extremely unrealistic view.

 

America’s free enterprise system allows businesses to thrive as they compete in the open marketplace and strive toward ever better services and products.

 

Really? You mean, all those products that used to be made here in the states, that are now imported from china, are 'better'?? The baby formula contaminated with lead? Childrens toys covered with lead based paint? Poor quality materials and workmanship?

 

Also, it was an UNregulated Wall Street (part of the 'services' end of that statement), that got us into this mess in the first place. (not to mention wall street drives up the price of gas, due to all the speculation going on.....)

 

American politics is burdened by big money from lobbyists and special interests with an undue influence on the peoples’ representatives. The Tea Party movement is seen as a threat to the entrenched political parties and thus is the continual target of smear campaigns and misrepresentation of its ideals. We choose not to respond to these attacks except to strongly and explicitly disavow any and all hate speech, any and all violence as well as insinuations of violence, and any and all extreme and fringe elements that bring discredit to the Tea Party Movement.

 

Ok, they can define the problem, but, they say absolutely nothing about what the plan to do about it.

 

The Tea Party is going to end up as being just another fringe group, that talks a good game, (sorta...) but, when push comes to shove, they are not going to be able to accomplish anything either.

 

As I see it, our major malfunction is, we are so very concerned about what is going on everywhere else in the world, EXCEPT right here at home. We are spending billions, if not trillions, fighting other peoples wars, and in the end, nothing much will change in those countries. After we are gone, they will go right back to what they were doing before. Our foreign policies have failed miserably, but, we continue to do the exact same things. How does that make any sense at all??

 

Wanna start fixing our government? First thing that needs to happen is ban paid lobbyists, ban corporate campaign financing, and limit candidates to donations from private citizens only, with a cap on just how much they can donate. (and maybe federal matching funds.....) We aren't going to fix this overnight, nor even in one presidential term. It has taken us more than a decade to get to where we are today, it is going to be a long, slow, climb out of the pit we have dug for ourselves. (or, our government has dug for us.... as the case may be.)

 

The american people seem to be amazingly fickle. In the 2008 elections, the dems won by rather large margins, as the country was tired of republican leadership. Two years later, the republicans make huge gains. Is our memory so short, that we forgot why we voted them out of office in the first place? Seems that the american people are impatient, and expect results RIGHT NOW. Trouble is, that is extremely unrealistic, so, I expect the cycle to continue to repeat itself, until such time as our economy completely collapses. No one has the political will to do what is necessary.

[csgators]

Also, it was an UNregulated Wall Street

 

That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time, they have been heavily regulated for a long time now.

[grannywils]

Well CS, the cold light of day has arrived, and I have had some more time to think on all of this. I have to tell you that what Vagrant0 said above makes a lot of sense to me; Ginny's response notwithstanding. He most obviously did do his homework, so I have no idea what she means in her response.

 

When I originally suggested that you might be copping out on those issues you were leaving to the states, this is exactly what I was talking about. It is just too easy that way, and nothing gets resolved. Particularly when it is always the most controversial issues/laws/regulations that you don't seem to want to have handled by the feds.

 

The fact is that freedom is not so easy as we all seem to think it is. We all need to understand that and be willing to make the necessary sacrifices in order to achieve it.

 

I am weary of those who continually feel the need to rant about Liberals being responsible for taking it away and Conservatives being holier than thou. It has absolutely nothing to do with political persuasion. It has to do with the ability to think clearly and responsibly and to care about one's country and all of it's people.

 

Maybe if we can all stop this senseless "blame game" and try to put our heads together, we could really come up with a sensible, workable result. However, I must admit after reading much of what I have seen on this thread, I am not sure there is much of a likelihood of that. It apparently seems way too easy to do nothing and stand around accusing each other and pointing fingers than to get together and do something, doesn't it?

 

Think I am done with this one too.