Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

Spriggan88 · March 30, 2016

but i don't understand.. mods are disable only for the beta or will be disable even when this patch will be add?

Eruadur · March 30, 2016

In response to post #36126755.

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Bethesda was talking about a week of beta testing as far as I can remember....
So about next week I guess :)

Eruadur · March 30, 2016

In response to post #36127995.

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I don't think they will permanently disable the mods because Bethesda is also about to release the CK.
Now THAT would be hilarious: releasing the CK and permanently disabling mods....lol....
No, it's not :(

RustyXXL · March 30, 2016

In response to post #36127135. #36127445, #36127625, #36127845 are all replies on the same post.

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xaosbob wrote: Here's the story. Fallout, like any other game of this sort of mechanical complexity, tracks thousands of shifting variables, from a twitch on your mouse changing what is on-screen to NPC detection and combat AI to the unending changes wrought simply by playing the game--the precise location of every moved, placed, or destroyed item or actor, quest stages and dialog threading, all the sounds and music, NPC interactions not involving the player, and on and on.

This game is being played on tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of differing computer builds. It would not be far from true to claim that nearly every computer running this (not the consoles, plainly) has a different architecture, from gaming monsters first powered up on November 11 to aging workhorses that are technically below the minimum specs and running it just fine (like mine).

So OF COURSE they are disabling mods and the console. The survival patch is a BETA, not a release. It is opt-in for TESTING because it is not ready for full release. Meaning that, if you want to play with mods and console access, you absolutely can--simply do not opt in to the beta. If you are not beta testing the patch, you do not get to squeak about being denied something that is rightfully yours by virtue of owning the game--it is not yours yet, because it HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. When it is, you will get it. Simple as that.

They would not be able to get any meaningful feedback if, in addition to the game's internal complexity, compounded by a functionally-limitless variety of platforms upon which it operates, their testers were also using mods from a staggering library of homebrewed, technically hacked (beautifully, in many cases) modifications that were not developed on software that Beth developed and is familiar with. They want to know how the changes affect the game itself, not all the myriad things we modders and mod-users have done to it. Mods make it impossible to tell if something is working as intended, because it adds uncountably more variables to the mix.

And finally, YES the console is disabled, because they don't want us to fix the problems we encounter--they WANT US TO TELL THEM ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WE ENCOUNTER so they can fix them! If we just fix it ourselves with a few keystrokes, we likely won't tell them about the problem, bug, or break. If we don't tell them, we are FAILING AT BETA TESTING, and we have no room to complain if they do not fix that thing we experienced but didn't tell them about. Locking out the console is simply a way to encourage diligent reporting.

BETA TEST. If you want to be a grown-up and help Bethesda do this damned update right, then be a tester and understand that it has to be done in a certain way so you can give them meaningful data. If you do not want to do that, if you just want to play, then don't choose to test systems you have no intentions of testing. When they release it, you can play it to your heart's content then, and make your summary judgments, confident and secure in the knowledge that you know so much better how things should have been done. Oh wait.

That's the point of f**king testing, innit?

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Eruadur wrote: @xaosbob
Seriously dude, if THIS^ doesn't get the message across then nothing will....

I salute you sir for exactly telling it like it is.
My compliments on a story well told :)

Maybe the 4th graders in here will understand now ??
Every other whiny comment will be obsolete after reading this :)
Like : 'mwééh!! They deleted my móóóds'
( read that with an Eric Cartman voice and it's even more accurate )

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RustyXXL wrote: All nice and dandy, and very well written, BUT :P

I finished All major and most of the minor content (including Automatron) at least 3-5 times, a lot of it even more, up to 8 times. The only thing keeping me interested in the game is modding and content(!) DLCs. Take away modding and this game is dead for me, as is the beta. A survival mode alone doesn't offer enough "new" for me to play the game again. On the other hand I'd really like to test the survival mode. In general I did enjoy siomilar gameplay (i.e. FNV and Skyrim with RND and Frostfall), and I might have been able to give at least some feedback about Elements I do or don't enjoy.
Well, anyway, I got more than enough gameplay for my money one way or another, so I'll just wait and see until it moves out of beta, and either the game keeps alive for me or it won't.
I'm not complaining either, as I said, I got my moneys worth, and I don't need to clinge to any game, just sharing my opinion. ;)

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Eruadur wrote: @rustxxl

Just one thing :
Seems like everyone forgot about the fact that mods aren't officially supported yet?
Not until the GECK or CK is out? Is the CK out? Hmmm? No it is not.

Then again mate: go play with those mods man! I do too!
Just don't opt in on the survival beta man! Really ...!

Really, it's all so simple when you stop and think about it :)

Mods not being officially supported doesn't change the fact that the game (and with that the beta of the Survival mode) would be dead for me (and probably a lot of other ppl) without mods at the current time, probably at least until Far Harbour comes out, and with that the need of testing a survival mode is simply not existant. And as I said, I didn't opt in to the beta as well, and I'm not complaining about it either. All I'm saying is, that I would like to test it, if there was a way to add at least some mods, and that I could then give feedback about elements I do like or dislike about the New Survival mode. Anyway...I'm outta here, back to building my Settlement and discovering all the new names my settlers got....seriously....such a simple addition, and I already care more about my settlers than ever before....^^ Edited March 30, 2016 by RustyXXL

lupettorosso · March 30, 2016

prejudice but it is an error of Bethesda in the beta or wanted to disable the mod?

Deleted3507349User · March 30, 2016

In response to post #36127135. #36127445, #36127625, #36127845, #36128375 are all replies on the same post.

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Quote
xaosbob wrote: Here's the story. Fallout, like any other game of this sort of mechanical complexity, tracks thousands of shifting variables, from a twitch on your mouse changing what is on-screen to NPC detection and combat AI to the unending changes wrought simply by playing the game--the precise location of every moved, placed, or destroyed item or actor, quest stages and dialog threading, all the sounds and music, NPC interactions not involving the player, and on and on.

This game is being played on tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of differing computer builds. It would not be far from true to claim that nearly every computer running this (not the consoles, plainly) has a different architecture, from gaming monsters first powered up on November 11 to aging workhorses that are technically below the minimum specs and running it just fine (like mine).

So OF COURSE they are disabling mods and the console. The survival patch is a BETA, not a release. It is opt-in for TESTING because it is not ready for full release. Meaning that, if you want to play with mods and console access, you absolutely can--simply do not opt in to the beta. If you are not beta testing the patch, you do not get to squeak about being denied something that is rightfully yours by virtue of owning the game--it is not yours yet, because it HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. When it is, you will get it. Simple as that.

They would not be able to get any meaningful feedback if, in addition to the game's internal complexity, compounded by a functionally-limitless variety of platforms upon which it operates, their testers were also using mods from a staggering library of homebrewed, technically hacked (beautifully, in many cases) modifications that were not developed on software that Beth developed and is familiar with. They want to know how the changes affect the game itself, not all the myriad things we modders and mod-users have done to it. Mods make it impossible to tell if something is working as intended, because it adds uncountably more variables to the mix.

And finally, YES the console is disabled, because they don't want us to fix the problems we encounter--they WANT US TO TELL THEM ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WE ENCOUNTER so they can fix them! If we just fix it ourselves with a few keystrokes, we likely won't tell them about the problem, bug, or break. If we don't tell them, we are FAILING AT BETA TESTING, and we have no room to complain if they do not fix that thing we experienced but didn't tell them about. Locking out the console is simply a way to encourage diligent reporting.

BETA TEST. If you want to be a grown-up and help Bethesda do this damned update right, then be a tester and understand that it has to be done in a certain way so you can give them meaningful data. If you do not want to do that, if you just want to play, then don't choose to test systems you have no intentions of testing. When they release it, you can play it to your heart's content then, and make your summary judgments, confident and secure in the knowledge that you know so much better how things should have been done. Oh wait.

That's the point of f**king testing, innit?

Quote
Eruadur wrote: @xaosbob
Seriously dude, if THIS^ doesn't get the message across then nothing will....

I salute you sir for exactly telling it like it is.
My compliments on a story well told :)

Maybe the 4th graders in here will understand now ??
Every other whiny comment will be obsolete after reading this :)
Like : 'mwééh!! They deleted my móóóds'
( read that with an Eric Cartman voice and it's even more accurate )

Quote
RustyXXL wrote: All nice and dandy, and very well written, BUT :P

I finished All major and most of the minor content (including Automatron) at least 3-5 times, a lot of it even more, up to 8 times. The only thing keeping me interested in the game is modding and content(!) DLCs. Take away modding and this game is dead for me, as is the beta. A survival mode alone doesn't offer enough "new" for me to play the game again. On the other hand I'd really like to test the survival mode. In general I did enjoy siomilar gameplay (i.e. FNV and Skyrim with RND and Frostfall), and I might have been able to give at least some feedback about Elements I do or don't enjoy.
Well, anyway, I got more than enough gameplay for my money one way or another, so I'll just wait and see until it moves out of beta, and either the game keeps alive for me or it won't.
I'm not complaining either, as I said, I got my moneys worth, and I don't need to clinge to any game, just sharing my opinion. ;)

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Eruadur wrote: @rustxxl

Just one thing :
Seems like everyone forgot about the fact that mods aren't officially supported yet?
Not until the GECK or CK is out? Is the CK out? Hmmm? No it is not.

Then again mate: go play with those mods man! I do too!
Just don't opt in on the survival beta man! Really ...!

Really, it's all so simple when you stop and think about it :)

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RustyXXL wrote: Mods not being officially supported doesn't change the fact that the game (and with that the beta of the Survival mode) would be dead for me (and probably a lot of other ppl) without mods at the current time, probably at least until Far Harbour comes out, and with that the need of testing a survival mode is simply not existant. And as I said, I didn't opt in to the beta as well, and I'm not complaining about it either. All I'm saying is, that I would like to test it, if there was a way to add at least some mods, and that I could then give feedback about elements I do like or dislike about the New Survival mode. Anyway...I'm outta here, back to building my Settlement and discovering all the new names my settlers got....seriously....such a simple addition, and I already care more about my settlers than ever before....^^

I've heard this story before, but would someone PLEASE explain just how the theory works in actual practice? This is a single-player game. AFAIK, the only online component is the pip-boy app. So, there should be no way for Bethesda to gather data without players actually telling them something is broken...which we would do whether the console and mods are enabled or not. The notion that running mods or using the console somehow cuts Bethesda out of the information loop is just plain silly; all you have to do is look at the the forums here, on Steam, and on Bethesda's own forum to see constant bug reports. That's been the case for every game they've ever made.

The only way the argument makes any sense whatsoever would be if all the testing was being done in a closed environment. This is a public beta, your argument has no merit. The fact that mods themselves have been actively disabled by the game since the very first update (and sorta 'hidden' at launch) also invalidates the above well-worn apologizing. Edited March 30, 2016 by digitaltrucker

Mitsurugi2424 · March 30, 2016

In response to post #36113280. #36113495, #36113620, #36113775, #36113885, #36115700, #36115745, #36116315, #36124765, #36125685, #36126565, #36127040, #36127720 are all replies on the same post.

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ellsdragon wrote: B*tch b*tch b*tch.
Seriously, that's what I'm getting out of almost 90% of the comments on here. "Mods are necessary, I can't live without them. It's stupid that they turned off the console, I'll need that too." It's a damn BETA. They want people to test it and see about how they can break it before allowing mods. And the console? If you can't play without cheating, that's not playing.
I can't even come up with a proper comparison because of the sheer amount of stupid being crammed into this community. If you have a problem with Beth wanting to try and fix the damn game, get off your ass and MAKE a damn game. Then you can understand how Beth feels when someone bitches about how sh*t your game is.

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kuhaica wrote: the console is mainly a debugger...

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jaitsu wrote: So in other words, ellsdragon, "WHAAA WHAAA WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY THE SAME AS ME I FEEL LIKE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PASS JUDGEMENT BECAUSE PEOPLE USE SOMETHING I DON"T WAAAAHHAAHAAHAHA"

Pull your head from your ass.

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Tantalus010 wrote: Normally I'd totally agree with you, but with the number of minor issues and bugs in Bethesda's games, the console actually IS a necessity. That's why I'm opting out on this one.

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mcchuggernaut wrote: Yeah, without the console how can I get the broken level 4 merchants to even show up at my settlements? Or get the brahmin or Preston off the roof of my house? Bethesda has known about these problems since release, but hasn't bothered to fix them yet. The console isn't for cheating in Fallout 4, it's basically for fixing all the bugs.

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Zzyxzz wrote: You know nothing Jon Snow, eeeh ellsdragon

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Ellendar12 wrote: The thing is though the point of a beta is for those bugs to actually annoy you enough that you actually report them. I imagine with console enabled every time you hit a minor bug many people will just console fix it and keep on rolling rather than giving bethesda the information they need to actually fix things. Remember, a beta isn't put our for our benefit, betas exist for the benefit of the development team and it isn't a surprise that it is designed for their benefit rather than our enjoyment.

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hivKORN wrote: you cant test these features
https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/fallout-4s-all-new-survival-mode/2016/03/29/96
without one bug who was reported since release day.
Is it so hard to understand!?,
Console is debugger and a helper to get the id of an problematic object as accurately as possible. Instead of posting an description where they can find rock x and tree y and hole z in worldmesh.
But the report of the right id will change nothing.
Bethesda will always remain Bethesda.
"War never changes" :D

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TrentTheWanderer wrote: So what you are saying is that you're surprised this modding community wants to play with mods?

I think you might need to spend some time re-evaluating your expectations.

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Kilator wrote: Maybe if bethesda wanst so freaking lazy and optimized their damned piece of shaite game. These mods give me over 30 fps improvement. I literally cant play without them.

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julio131 wrote: with mods enable, all the change will be overwrite by mods(i think all things(food,med...) will add a new flag(survive mode), just like they did in FNV). Therefore, you can't test s**t in the beta if your mods don't update for it.
so yeah, I think they need to force to disable mods in the beta.

but when it comes the stable update, I hope we can use mods.

btw, I use console for better screenshot

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Percephere wrote: They really should let us test it with mods. What with their plan to release mods to consoles,it would be disastrous if they ran into a whole bunch of problems with it at launch because they didn't test it thoroughly.

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Eruadur wrote: Seems like everyone forgot about the fact that mods aren't officially supported yet?
Not until the GECK or CK is out? Is the CK out? Hmmm?

So people are whining like a bunch of babies about something that they aren't supposed to be using yet and they get all ballistic about when you tell them?

There used to be a time when people in The Nexus Community were more grown up about this...
It's that "entitlement era" isn't it ? :)

You actually make a valid argument ellsdragon. Unfortunately, console is necessary to debug. I don't need God mode, but I do need toggle collision when I'm stuck in a chair. I do need quest advancing commands when my quests bug out. Sometimes I have even needed moveto player. When my companion stayed stuck on a roof. And yes, before I did this I even tried recruiting a new one, waiting 3 days and seeing if the stuck one found their way home. They didn't....

While I totally agree that you should just opt out if you need turn mods that bad and are the type to console in every health item you'd need... I do feel some commands are simply needed.

Also, I am pro choice as far as game play goes. This is just my opinion, and yes I use alot of mods myself. This is why I opted out. (that and survival mode doesn't appeal to me all that much)

ilusaodigital · March 30, 2016

I still think the survival mode offered by 'unofficial mods' is even higher and more fun than the official.

Do not release the CK along with the game or shortly after release is a combination of lazy marketing, because they launch DLC's acceptable quality sell the plumb mode.

And just as many, even being a fan of Fallout, esase last episode does not offer much replay factor simply because the RPG elements are virtually nil. After all, most of the responses boil down to 1 - Yes

2 - Yes and 3 - Yes, without any impact on gameplay.

Anyway, good to see the conservative Beth try to make something of interest of the players, and not just to pluck a few cents of our pockets.

Those are my two cents.

ilusaodigital · March 30, 2016

In response to post #36105510. #36107130, #36108145, #36111230, #36111695, #36111880, #36112075, #36112165, #36112205, #36114300, #36114565, #36115285, #36116105, #36116520, #36119260, #36119480, #36120035, #36121030, #36123185 are all replies on the same post.

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Uthuriel wrote: https://community.bethesda.net/thread/2952

Bethesda disabled the console in the "new" survival mode

good job -.-

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HippeusOmega wrote: Yeah I was really suprised by this. I get they don't want gamers cheating but console is used for a lot more then cheating.

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Zaxen069 wrote: wow that ..... sucks console to fun to mess with i mean i use for testing out mods i DL or if i feel liek fighting a bunch of npc's or something guess we'll have to wait for modders to renable it

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calleb666 wrote: Console yeah, how many games give you this console option? The number close to zero. They obviously had their reasons to disable it, stop whining already

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starfis wrote: Was it confirmed by someone official that the console is disabled as part of the Survival overhaul and not just as part of beta testing? I know they didn't disabled it during previous beta updates or during Automatron prerelease, but maybe they want to know what can happen without console interfering similar to disabling mods. If it truly is a "feature", this beta and all that crying about it may simply prove them that disabling it is not best idea. Cheating in singleplayer game is ruining only my own experience, if this is their only reason. And in the end, enabling console will probably take a second when the CK is released next month so who really care.

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jet4571 wrote: And wait until you get stuck between 2 static objects and cant get out. No TCL command to get unstuck. Good Job Bethesda!

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Skramel wrote: Yeah, cool, but clipping in stones and walls though...

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Skramel wrote: don't be ridiculous. There such thing as "trainers", you know? But bugs and glitches still in this fn game, but now without console

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popcorn71 wrote: On the one hand, I can understand Bethesda wanting to ensure that their beta test environment is 'clean' and reduce the amount of false bug reports brought on by irresponsible modding.

On the other hand they will never be able to test the robustness of their code without testing it real world situations (ie: with mods and console). I wouldn't want to be them when they finally decide to open up mod to consoles...

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Tantalus010 wrote: @popcorn - At this point, I'll be extremely surprised if full console modding ever happens. I think a lot of console players expect it to, but I think Bethesda really only intends to deliver simple mods like recolors. I mean, how will modders mod the console version? On PC and then port the mods over? On the consoles themselves? If on the consoles, then how? Bethesda's tools have always obviously been designed solely for keyboard/mouse. How will scripting work? What happens when consoles start crashing/freezing/bricking because of poorly scripted mods?

All I'm saying: console modding is going to be a far more complex undertaking than most realize. Maybe even more complex than Bethesda realizes, given that they jumped whole hog into the paid modding scene for Skyrim without thinking it through very well. Less than 24 hours after release, there was a legal issue.

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Gambit77 wrote: kiss quality screenshots goodbye

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Polydine wrote: makes sense, unlike other patches they need to check game balance as well as bugs.

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popcorn71 wrote: @ Tantalus010
My understanding is that the only difference between the console and PC version of the game is the executable file. Bethesda uses a very modular, 'plug and play' approach to modding, so there is no technical reason why any mod that does not require changes to ini files or direct changes to the executable to work would not on both the PC AND the console versions of the game.

The issue of weather or not current console hardware can handle the overhead incurred from mods is a completely separate issue. Watching you Xbox fry its self trying to render all 4k textures isn't the same the game not loading the extra dll file required for script extenders to work.

The bottom line is that any 'normal' mod that only requires an esp/esm plus a few meshes and textures to work should work regardless of the hardware, so long is it does not make edits conflict with the edits made by another mod.

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Zaxen069 wrote: @calleb666 Considering we had it from the start/ it's normal for Fallout/Elder Scroll Games it's a reasonable compliant + if you factor in how the console helps with some of the bugs in their games and really if you want to cheat with the console it's your choice hell if you wanted to you could just as easily cheat with mods

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Tantalus010 wrote: @popcorn - Oh I'm sure the file structure is similar, but console players can't even browse/edit their game files. Thus, they have no way of installing any mod that requires a manual installation (like ENB). Even if everything were plug and play, this is completely new ground and Bethesda is not known for releasing bug-free software. Hell, they're not even known for fixing all (or even most of) their bugs.

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RaffTheSweetling wrote: Pretty sure in Saugus Ironworks offices there are a whole lot of chairs placed in the wrong direction so If you click on one and accidentally sit down you end up stuck half in/half out the wall and facing an instant-death drop down to the floor below you. Without the console or the quicksave this sort of thing is gonna be a huge pain in the Ar$e.

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MythDinoex wrote: @calleb666

Never
go
full
retarded.

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asouthern wrote: Anyone want to take bets on how long until a mod comes along that re enables console in the game? My guess: 2 weeks.

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Wicketklown001 wrote: I would guess sooner depending on how hard it is to re enable it. If it's easy then I'd guess almost same day.

Just use an explosive and ready: static objects destroyed! :)

Eruadur · March 30, 2016

In response to post #36129870.

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Your hard to read two cents.... :s

Look, some people you just can't satisfy. You are clearly one of them.
I'm on my third play through and I'm having fun :)

Do you know why? Because now that the CK is coming out soon I know there will be even more great mod to be released! That means even more hours into fallout 4.

Life's good man :)

Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

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