If the BOS wins, is the NCR in trouble?

[midtek]

 

Like, there is so much about D.C. we don't know about other then the BoS control it and one BoS member calls it a country in a eulogy sent to a dead soldier's mother. For all we know they could be on their way of building industry and an economy in D.C. which would make sense as with the new recruitment system they would need to mass-produce weapons, uniforms and armor as well as replacement parts for power armor.

 

 

I think that's not very BoS-wise movement. Thinking about a BoS branch suddenly turn themselves into a politic faction governing DC to the level of mass industrial and economic development, the organization goes through a lot of innovation that is BoS-no-more. More like a wannabe-Enclave, rise to power - it loses its merit as a story faction in that way.

Still, it can be a turning page opening the new story arc of BoS overlord vs BoS fundamentalist vs DC wastelanders. Such treatment will be demanded to introduce BoS to gamers as a matchable institution to NCR federation.

I think that can be fun part for storymakers turning DC into neo feudalism nation where post Washington revolution is about to be held. Extreme, but can be fun. Old fans will have a fit to death tho xD

[CiderMuffin]

I don't know, I'd rather D.C. BoS eventually turn into the good ending of the Mid-Western. Like I agree with Veronica from New Vegas's thinking, the BoS can do a lot of good and Maxson's less-wastelander-xenophobic BoS looks like it could have that potential. I'd actually really like to see the BoS set up a parliament that deals with governing the people with the Elder really only having power over the BoS forces and the scribe division.

 

I know, I know. People are tired of BoS being good guys but honestly I just want to see more of the wasteland slowly becoming civilized and have order return. People need to rebuild after all.

Edited June 22, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[midtek]

Well, that's exactly a kingdom. The Elder queen or king has power over knights and bureaucrats, governs the territory by the parliament. In the middle of Washington DC. American Revolution is inevitable when that happens. And sure that's Beth's favorite play nowadays.

Maxson is more like a Brotherhood material with Lyons influence. At least he got supporters in that way. Yes, he inherited the blood of Maxson family. But becoming a king is to move Brotherhood backward to medieval times. Maxson knows that so he has put a middle finger on every worship count according the records. But man can change. That's where Brotherhood collapses.

[CiderMuffin]

I doubt Maxson would cause the collapse. Brotherhood has been around for over 200 years without a succession crisis, they're even surviving the NCR-BoS war. As for a monarchy, no that's not how they are. For instance BoS already has a council of Elders that not even the High Elder can go against. The High Elder also isn't a position that is gained by birth but by rank.

 

BoS succession works by whoever has the highest rank gets the title Elder if the previous one died or was stripped of their rank by going against the codex. That's always how it worked and setting up a nation wouldn't really change that, remember the BoS is fashioned on crusader monastic orders, some of which have actually held countries and large amounts of land like the Knights Hospitaller who controlled Cyprus and Rhodes. All I'd see is another branch of the BoS being created that deals with stuff around settlements, at most just another Scribe order as Scribes are already seen as civilians compared to the armed force.

 

I don't think Maxson will try to establish a kingdom or anything, it wouldn't make any sense. Even still establishing a monarchy wouldn't plunge the BoS back to 'medieval times' which is ignoring that monarchies have been around long before and after the medieval era with several still functioning today. Denmark, England, Japan (who holds the record for longest royal lineage), Sweden, Cambodia and numerous other nations.

 

I can see where you're coming from, the Tuetonic Order did the same thing when it became Prussia but I just don't see it happening and if it did the most likely case is it would be a constitutional monarchy where Maxson doesn't have complete control since the Codex is a very huge part of the Brotherhood of Steel.

Edited June 22, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[zc123]

Those rooting for the NCR are forgetting something that was central to the new vegas war.

 

The NCR no matter how tied up in bureaucracy is still a democratic republic.

 

Many soldiers and civilians noted in new Vegas that the protracted war with the legion played a very heavy toll on the republic and that many people were darn near ready to oust the president and other leadership because of it.

 

So no while the brotherhood likely would not win outright (they do have the tech and weapons to at least draw it out for a very long time) they could cause such a loss of numbers that they could cause the NCR to either quit or call for a treaty.

 

The longer it takes for the conflict to happen also means the stronger the BOS is likely to become due to their cleaning areas of mutants drawing the admiration of humans and the fact that they are openly recruiting.

[midtek]

Well, I was talking in algorithmic way. Beth's Fallout uses recurring historic theme as tropes. The monarchy ruling Washington D.C, the historical symbol of what, means it triggers the Revolutionary War - not based on speculation but in plot composition.

Hierarchically, wastelanders go under control. Big guys have supreme weaponry and the purifier. But most of all, their number is too small to build and maintain the infrastructure. Hierarchically, subjugation is going to be happened to operate the national scale. Which means colonization of Capital Wasteland. Either voluntarily or by force. Not to mention this movement is nothing to do with BoS's original mission. Perfect setting for recent Beth's trend of ideological conflicts from each and every side.

Of course there can be different speculations. I was just brainstorming in that style.

[RattleAndGrind]

<snip>

 

I know, I know. People are tired of BoS being good guys but honestly I just want to see more of the wasteland slowly becoming civilized and have order return. People need to rebuild after all.

I do not see the BoS as good guys, The BoS are nothing more than bullies in Power Armor.

 

The BoS wants to gather all technology unto themselves and they have no moral limitations on how they get it. They are perfectly willing to destroy entire communities just to get their hands on an interesting piece of tech. They will summarily kill people and groups they see using any tech they wish to control. I cannot quote the couriers comment, but the bottom line was that the BoS is dangerous if you use any tech in their presence. Furthermore, the BoS is perfectly willing to destroy everyone "not bound by steel" in some misguided belief that these subhumans must be "protected" from any and all advanced technology. Worse, in the vocabulary of the BoS, 'kill' and 'protect' are semantic equals. Which BoS character was it that compared the 'savages' to children playing with matches when tech was involved?

 

And Veronica is correct. The BoS will destroy itself unless it abandons some of the more constrictive sections of the Codex and starts engaging with the rest of the world. But to engage with the rest of the world, the BoS must first abandon their Codex inspired belief that all technology belongs to them alone. They must abandon the Codex inspired belief that those "not bound by steel" are 'savages' and can be killed with impunity. They must abandon their Codex inspired belief that they are permitted to acquire tech at the expense of the rest of humanity.

 

But alas, the BoS is wedded to their precious Codex. They will never abandon The Codex and its over glorified principles, even to save themselves from extinction. That is unless you look a little closer.

 

What was it the Codex says about using pre war tech or nuclear weapons? Oh yeah, it forbids it. But wait now, I am having a vision, I see a big robot named Liberty Prime which is pre war tech? And look there, it launches tactical nuclear devices? And I see the BoS using Liberty Prime in their war against the Enclave in the East? I see the BoS violating the Codex and using pre war tech AND nuclear weapons in war.

 

So at it's best, the Codex is a document of convenience. It is followed when the BoS needs to justify their killing and destroying to collect technology from the savages, but it is blithely ignored when it suits their needs. Typical BoS hypocrisy.

 

Oh yeah, about the infallibility of BoS leadership, I have to look no further than Elijah. He may have been insane, but his insanity was fueled by the BoS' overwhelming desire to get the ultimate tech. The BoS personified.

Edited June 25, 2016 by RattleAndGrind

[AnvilOfWar]

 

Oh yeah, about the infallibility of BoS leadership, I have to look no further than Elijah. He may have been insane, but his insanity was fueled by the BoS' overwhelming desire to get the ultimate tech. The BoS personified.

 

 

I don't even feel Elijah was "insane" he was the mirror held up in front of the Brotherhood and reflecting it's core tenants unhinged. "Collect Technology, and use it for their own ends. No other considerations needed." If anything Elijah represents the Brotherhood at its most base level, something of which scared the ruling council enough to order his death. Elijah's whole attitude was one of "We shouldn't care who we have to step on, or what we do to obtain it, the technology ends justify any means."

[RattleAndGrind]

 

 

Oh yeah, about the infallibility of BoS leadership, I have to look no further than Elijah. He may have been insane, but his insanity was fueled by the BoS' overwhelming desire to get the ultimate tech. The BoS personified.

 

 

I don't even feel Elijah was "insane" he was the mirror held up in front of the Brotherhood and reflecting it's core tenants unhinged. "Collect Technology, and use it for their own ends. No other considerations needed." If anything Elijah represents the Brotherhood at its most base level, something of which scared the ruling council enough to order his death. Elijah's whole attitude was one of "We shouldn't care who we have to step on, or what we do to obtain it, the technology ends justify any means."

 

I hadn't considered that perspective. You may be correct. Either way, the BoS I not a rational organization: they are a rationalizing organization.

[CiderMuffin]

Yes let's ignore the fact that the BoS didn't actually attack any settlement simply because it had advanced technology, like the Shi or Vault City. There is literally no proof the BoS bully people into giving up tech or attack entire settlements.

 

Also Elijah is disgraced by the BoS, did you not pay attention to anything at all in New Vegas, Dead Money and Old World Blues? One of our companions in Dead Money was literally an operative sent out to kill Elijah by the BoS there is also the fact that Elijah abandoned the BoS and it's philosophy after his exile which is, again, shown in New Vegas, Dead Money and Old World Blues. Also using the logic of "Well clearly this insane man shows that an entire group should be destroyed" is incredibly stupid and would mean that so many religions, organizations and countries should be blamed entirely for the acts of one insane man who broke away from them. Christ, it's straw grasping as hell.

 

You might as well say that the Followers of the Apocalypse should be blamed for the actions of Caesar as he was a former member.

Edited June 27, 2016 by CiderMuffin