If the BOS wins, is the NCR in trouble?

[RattleAndGrind]

Yes let's ignore the fact that the BoS didn't actually attack any settlement simply because it had advanced technology, like the Shi or Vault City. There is literally no proof the BoS bully people into giving up tech or attack entire settlements.

 

Also Elijah is disgraced by the BoS, did you not pay attention to anything at all in New Vegas, Dead Money and Old World Blues? One of our companions in Dead Money was literally an operative sent out to kill Elijah by the BoS there is also the fact that Elijah abandoned the BoS and it's philosophy after his exile which is, again, shown in New Vegas, Dead Money and Old World Blues. Also using the logic of "Well clearly this insane man shows that an entire group should be destroyed" is incredibly stupid and would mean that so many religions, organizations and countries should be blamed entirely for the acts of one insane man who broke away from them. Christ, it's straw grasping as hell.

 

You might as well say that the Followers of the Apocalypse should be blamed for the actions of Caesar as he was a former member.

We won't count The Pitt.

 

In Fallout NV, the BoS demands that the Courier destroy the Van Graffs as a demonstration of his loyalty to the BoS. The courier actually does the BoS dirty work and destroys an entire organization.

 

When Cassidy Caravans and other traders are attacked by energy weapons, the first suspect is the BoS. Cassidy comments that the pattern does not fit the BoS, because the supplies were destroyed and not stolen. Her statement clearly implies that the BoS has a pattern of attacking caravans and stealing the supplies.

 

The Courier himself comments to Veronica about the danger of using technology in the presence of the BoS and Veronica does nothing to dissuade him from that opinion.

 

No matter which path you take through FO4, the BoS attacks Bunker Hill to destroy four synths. Why attack Bunker Hill just to kill four synths. That is nonsensical and there has to be another motive. Given that the Knights are shouting, "KILL THEN ALL!! KILL THEN ALL!!"; I suspect the people which are helping the synths "integrate into society" are the targets.

 

And I was talking about Elijah, Elijah's motivation and how Elijah exemplified the thinking of the BoS and their insane drive for the acquisition of technology. What I said has absolutely nothing to do with what the BoS did as a response to Elijah's insanity. Disavowing Elijah does not negate Elijah's motivation or his thinking. And sending Christine to kill him implies only that they want him dead. It does not say why, but I suspect he was just an embarrassment (which Veronica confirms during I Can Make You Care).

 

If you read my comments carefully you will see that nowhere did I state that the BoS needed to be destroyed. In fact, why would I put any effort into destroying an organization that is bound to destroy itself.

 

You need to stop putting words in my keyboard and stick to what I actually write.

 

And finally, your arguments start to disintegrate when you start applying negative appellations and resort to insults.

Edited June 27, 2016 by RattleAndGrind

[CiderMuffin]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Scourge

 

"Before the Scourge, The Pitt was lawless and ruled by no one, with rape gangs, raiders, slavers, and many other kinds of horrors all freely wandered, terrorizing the few innocent survivors."

 

Yea, the scourge was far from killing innocent people.

 

Using the Van Graffs and one ending is pulling at straws because those aren't canon yet.

 

What Cassidy actually says is "This... is Brotherhood level murder here. But they don't do things like that. This was done with a purpose." She straight up says the Brotherhood doesn't do things like that.

 

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/RoseofSharonCassidy.txt

 

The BoS go to Bunker Hill but it's not the citizens of Bunker Hill that are firing on them but the railroad and the Institute. The Brotherhood didn't attack any of the civilians in Bunker Hill.

 

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Battle_of_Bunker_Hill

 

Elijah's motivation after Helios One was turning the Mojave into a graveyard by using technology wrongly, it's literally the opposite of the BoS's philosophy. He wanted to use the cloud and the holograms to massacre everything, that was his entire goal in Dead Money. That's his ending, that was his entire goal in Dead Money and he'll straight up tell you that. After Helios One Elijah abandoned the BoS and their philosophy.

 

"Attack? No, not attack them. {Cold, deadpan, quiet} Wipe the slate clean. Make the Mojave like it was meant to be... undisturbed by man. {Watching this play out in his head. Dreaming of war, victory, tinge of quiet, determined madness.} I'll scour Hoover Dam with the Cloud, rain its walls with spears from the sun... with an army of Old World ghosts behind me, Holograms all. {Watching this play out in his head. Dreaming of war, victory, tinge of quiet, determined madness.} I'll kill them until it's only me, me alone... in a quiet world. {To himself} In a world that's nothing like what happened at HELIOS One. {Quiet madness rolls to a near-quiet end.}"

 

He even talks about killing his own chapter

 

"Hnh. Going to wipe the slate clean. Kimball, the Republic... Hardin, McNamara, my "brothers." Then I'll head back West. {All of Elijah's Act 1 messages are spoken as if he's talking to himself, the player is eavesdropping on him.}"

 

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NVDLC01Elijah.txt

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Money_endings

 

His madness is not fueled by BoS philosophy or codex, his madness is fueled by revenge of not being able to accomplish what he started at Helios One, not even revenge for his fallen brothers and sisters but revenge for not completing his work, even as an Elder he didn't care about the Brotherhood. Also yes, comparing the same line of logic to the Followers of the Apocalypse and Caesar is accurate. Everything Caesar knows he learned through reading and watching holotapes in the Follower's archives, it's the same exact logic you used and using Caesar and the Followers as an example is a good way to show how completely awful it is.

 

I'm not insulting anyone, I'm pointing out inaccuracies in your logic.

Edited June 27, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[AnvilOfWar]

What Cassidy actually says is "This... is Brotherhood level murder here. But they don't do things like that. This was done with a purpose." She straight up says the Brotherhood doesn't do things like that.

 

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/RoseofSharonCassidy.txt

 

It's important to note how the statements are constructed to determine intent.

 

Cass says "This is Brotherhood level murder here." Which implies that she knows the Brotherhood -will kill people-. The next part of the statement is "But they don't do things like that." The 'like that' part of this statement is coming from the prior conversation you have with her as a Courier. Where it's stated that most of the cargo is "ash" and disintegrated. Implying that the Brotherhood wouldn't destroy a technology target or shipment but would rather claim the items for themselves, not simply destroy it. "This was done with a purpose" implies that the target that DID destroy the shipment had a reason to destroy the goods, and not just claim them. The whole statement is designed to inform that whoever DID hit the caravan isn't the Brotherhood of Steel in this -specific case-, since they would have been careful enough not to damage any technology and it wouldn't have been left or destroyed. Since we will eventually find out that it's the Van Graff's and Crimson Caravan, those statements are constructed in that way for the reason to cast light on it's possible the Brotherhood was involved but it will turn out they weren't.

 

There are more in game references that the BoS will attack, kill and take any technology that they come across from those that they can get away with. Alexander from the Gun Runners makes the observation that "We used to. [carry and deal in energy weapons] But every caravan carrying them was getting ambushed and wiped out. By someone sophisticated enough to know which was which. We think it was the Brotherhood of Steel - those crazies always go hard for energy weapons. But the NCR would rather pretend they killed all of them."

 

We can make back and forth comments for every faction going, but boil it down too the bare minimums, and the Brotherhood of Steel are just more technologically advanced raiders wearing power armor, that target and secure high tech as their modus operandi.

[CiderMuffin]

When she said "This is Brotherhood level murder" she meant the fact that energy weapons were used, Cass is a NCR gal through and through and most likely saw the NCR-BoS war go through, when she sees energy weapons being used of course she will think "Brotherhood" but she doesn't accuse them of anything. Pay attention to what follows up next "But they don't do things like that" meaning, no the Brotherhood doesn't do stuff like murder innocent people. I can say a shooting "looks military level murder" because the shooters used the same tactics as a military squad with the same type of weapons it doesn't mean the military had a hand in it or does stuff like that.

 

The Brotherhood aren't raiders due to the fact they don't act like raiders, they're more of scavengers and explorers then they are raiders. They, again, don't attack innocent people or settlements. They aren't raiders and saying so is essentially ignoring all the facts we've been given throughout the series save for one optional route, one optional quest and one optional ending.

Edited June 28, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[JackTrenton]

I hope they don't make anything canon and invalidate player choices. We don't need to know what happened in previous games when we discover new regions like New York or New Orleans, or Ronto - completely unconnected from events in previous games with new factions or old ones that don't reference past events.

 

Personally I hope they set Fallout 5 in 2077 and cover the immediate aftermath of the Great War on the surface. We got a brief glimpse of this period during the prelude of Fallout 4, but I'm talking about an entire game set in this era. The desperation, insanity, and pandamonium in the world would be off the charts. The fear, adrenaline, and survival instinct during the apocalypse would be far greater than 200 years later, and events in 2078 could set the stage for the 200 years that follow, like a prequel to the series. Obviously a player character with VATS must have been present to prevent the extinction of the human race during the holocaust. Maybe he/she stopped a second strike from China?

 

So to brainstorm a plot - you are a husband/wife who kissed the family good bye and went to work/grocery store/wherever only to have nuclear armageddon go down while you are separated from your family. More firepower than the combined arsenals of all previous human conflicts explodes all around you. You must find the truth about your family and somehow save the world along the way...

Edited June 28, 2016 by JackTrenton

[CiderMuffin]

Fallout has a history of making things canon, wouldn't be surprised if Fallout 4 was given a canon ending.

[huntinggary]

I would say that they are at least beginning to go the route of slaughtering civilians in FO4. The radiant quests for collecting supplies for them say they don't care how you get those. Killing everyone there and doing it yourself is totally fine. So is turning the settlement over to them to run for themselves. I was actually kind of pissed when I got that, they made it sound like 'just pay them for this food' but the dialogue options skew heavily towards 'join, support, or die'

[CiderMuffin]

I would say that they are at least beginning to go the route of slaughtering civilians in FO4. The radiant quests for collecting supplies for them say they don't care how you get those. Killing everyone there and doing it yourself is totally fine. So is turning the settlement over to them to run for themselves. I was actually kind of pissed when I got that, they made it sound like 'just pay them for this food' but the dialogue options skew heavily towards 'join, support, or die'

1. Teagan states that mission is off the books

2. If you kill the settlers it's entirely on you as the individual, not the BoS as again, the mission is off the books.

3. No, the dialogue isn't heavily skewed towards those three.

 

They aren't on the beginning of doing such a thing because the only person doing it is you on a mission that is off the books, the rest of the BoS is centered around protecting people by attacking hostile locations and protecting the trade caravans by using their vertibirds.

Edited June 29, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[huntinggary]

 

1. Teagan states that mission is off the books

[huntinggary]

 

1. Teagan states that mission is off the books