Fallout 4 Creation Kit Beta info on bethsite

[kevkiev]

They aren't just "allowing us" to mod their game, people mod any game, regardless of what the creators decide. They are actively helping us mod their game, absolutely for free, which I think is amazing on their part.

 

I don't think it's all that amazing. It's a huge benefit to gamers, absolutely. But modders are also an asset to Bethesda. If Bethesda didn't make money in the long run from releasing the CK/Geck, they wouldn't do it. It's a smart business move.

[Reneer]

 

Bethesda is great.

Found the Bethdrone

 

Stay on denial all you want, but if you guys have at least a brain would know that this CK delay is absolutely bulls*** to milk one more dlc, there was people over this forum saying that this would happen, and guess what, It happened. Yet you guys still defend Todd and his lies, like, holy f***.

 

The CK is in private beta testing right now. It isn't artificially delayed.

 

 

They aren't just "allowing us" to mod their game, people mod any game, regardless of what the creators decide. They are actively helping us mod their game, absolutely for free, which I think is amazing on their part.

I don't think it's all that amazing. It's a huge benefit to gamers, absolutely. But modders are also an asset to Bethesda. If Bethesda didn't make money in the long run from releasing the CK/Geck, they wouldn't do it. It's a smart business move.

 

The amount of money that Bethesda has made, previously, from releasing the CK / GECK is probably a lot lower than we might think. As I showed earlier, the number of (Skyrim) PC users is very tiny compared to the number of console users. So the amount of money Beth could have gotten from mods adding to their bottom line is probably a smaller percentage of the total (Skyrim) PC userbase (around 3 million or so). That discrepancy is partly why we are seeing such a push by Bethesda to get mods on consoles and the whole paid modding fiasco last year - they, most likely, want to increase the number of gamers using mods and then figure out a way to charge for that (which is why they first tried the paid modding thing).

Edited April 11, 2016 by Reneer

[MichaelEpic]

Honestly, I feel like the world and the people and their entitled attitude is disgusting.

 

Do you like Fallout 4? Then you should be on your hands and knees with humbleness and appreciation that Bethesda exists at all and they made a game such as Fallout 4. Let alone that they are putting out a mod to allow the average Joe to make something really cool for their game.

 

Its like spending 7 years of your life building a classic hot rod, just the way you want it and then handing it over to a community center and saying "Do whatever you want and I'll pay for it."

 

That's incredibly generous and unselfish and staggeringly amazing for game developers to do.

[WhiskeyRiver2]

 

Everyone loves to throw around that with the GECK modders would do mods of so much better quality than the upcoming inexpensive DLC.. I am sorry, while I do believe the community is capable of adding the new functionality, and are quite talented as a whole, I would not assume they would outclass the professionals. And thats if modders were even able to get the creature capturing / fighting, or automatron assembly of ro-bits working as smoothly / properly.

 

Again, not saying its impossible, at all. The community is amazing. But that doesn't mean this DLC is pointless. One could argue that the community could create a far harbor add-on too, but does that mean they shouldn't do it..?

The reality is that we modders could likely throw together a system that would work well enough that it could cut into Bethesda's bottom line for those DLCs. Bethesda is trying to get every dollar it can out of console players and PC gamers. The wait for the geck is inexcusable. the longest it previously took for a release was 2 months and that was for skyrim. We're getting ready to push into 6 months.

 

Oi, jackass.

 

I'm one of the lucky ones beta-testing the FO4 GECK - trust me when I say that there is a very damn good reason its taken Bethesda so long just to get this far. The NDA prevents me from going into any detail though, so you'll just have to take my word (and maybe Millenia's if he sees this and agrees with me).

[kevkiev]

 

The amount of money that Bethesda has made, previously, from releasing the CK / GECK is probably a lot lower than we might think. As I showed earlier, the number of (Skyrim) PC users is very tiny compared to the number of console users. So the amount of money Beth could have gotten from mods adding to their bottom line is probably a smaller percentage of the total (Skyrim) PC userbase (around 3 million or so). That discrepancy is partly why we are seeing such a push by Bethesda to get mods on consoles and the whole paid modding fiasco last year - they, most likely, want to increase the number of gamers using mods and then figure out a way to charge for that (which is why they first tried the paid modding thing).

 

 

Yes, of course PC sales are a relatively small market, but just because the PC segment of the market is small compared to consoles doesn't mean it's not lucrative.

 

But that's not even the real point. It's not just the money Beth makes from PC sales that the CK/Geck supports anyways. The modding community is free R&D and free market research for Bethesda. A lot of ideas from mods get incorporated into future games, bought by console gamers and PC gamers alike. (EDIT: someone mentioned something like "modders gonna mod", no matter what tools are available. I think that's a good point. And by making the GECK/CK available, its use being subject to licensing terms, Bethesda ensures that it retains the rights to the products of the modding community. That's freakin' brilliant, and I think a lot of other gaming companies have their heads up their you-know-what's by not appreciating that.)

 

Don't get me wrong, to me this isn't some kind of polar "Beth is big evil business" versus "Beth is being oh so altruistic by making the CK/Geck available." That kind of thinking is absurdly simplistic, and doesn't add anything to any sort of meaningful discussion. It's a business relationship that benefits both Bethesda and its customer base. (Hooray!)

 

But things like what's posted above "get down on your hands and knees and be grateful" are just ridiculous. (I know that wasn't you.) The idea that a Bethesda game is like someone who spends 7 years on a hotrod and then releases it for modification is just so incredibly off the mark and is evidence of, and tends to fuel, the absurdly simplistic mode of discussion I mentioned earlier. It's a business, and we're customers - a business and customer base that enjoys a mutually beneficial relationship. And that's a good thing.

 

Edit 2: Sorry, I was multi-tasking and didn't appreciate the second part of your post. I think that's a really good point. Valve/Steam has already said that what they learned from the paid mod fiasco wasn't that paid mods are a no-go, but simply that they went about it the wrong way. I agree that we haven't heard the last of paid-for mods. Not by a long shot. It's only a matter of time.

Edited April 11, 2016 by kevkiev

[TeamBacon]

 

Bethesda is great.

Found the Bethdrone

 

Stay on denial all you want, but if you guys have at least a brain would know that this CK delay is absolutely bulls*** to milk one more dlc, there was people over this forum saying that this would happen, and guess what, It happened. Yet you guys still defend Todd and his lies, like, holy f***.

 

 

I don't exactly put much stake into the so called 'expert opinions' of guys on the internet who have not actually been inside of game studios, worked with different game engines, or learned from people who actually produce videogames.

 

If I am sick, I will get the opinion of a doctor, and not someone who just browses Web MD and thinks they are an expert. If I want insight on videogame design, I will get the opinion of a videogame designer, and not a know it all on an internet forum.

[Moksha8088]

 

The amount of money that Bethesda has made, previously, from releasing the CK / GECK is probably a lot lower than we might think. As I showed earlier, the number of (Skyrim) PC users is very tiny compared to the number of console users. So the amount of money Beth could have gotten from mods adding to their bottom line is probably a smaller percentage of the total (Skyrim) PC userbase (around 3 million or so). That discrepancy is partly why we are seeing such a push by Bethesda to get mods on consoles and the whole paid modding fiasco last year - they, most likely, want to increase the number of gamers using mods and then figure out a way to charge for that (which is why they first tried the paid modding thing).

 

 

-----------------

In the case of the PC, Skyrim mods are still being made at such a rate that it is hard to keep up with them. The Skyrim numbers on Steam are still major because people are still playing. My guess is that numbers have dropped markedly for consoles due to the Xbox 360 and PS3 platform requirements.

 

Mods are what has kept Bethesda so successful. It is well within the established parameters of the Suits to abandon a successful business model in the pursuit of even greater profits. On the other hand, most mods can be made console safe with a few common sense changes, like full body suits on CBBE and no enhanced blood splatter.

[Reneer]

In the case of the PC, Skyrim mods are still being made at such a rate that it is hard to keep up with them. The Skyrim numbers on Steam are still major because people are still playing. My guess is that numbers have dropped markedly for consoles due to the Xbox 360 and PS3 platform requirements.

 

Mods are what has kept Bethesda so successful. It is well within the established parameters of the Suits to abandon a successful business model in the pursuit of even greater profits. On the other hand, most mods can be made console safe with a few common sense changes, like full body suits on CBBE and no enhanced blood splatter.

Yes and no. Really the only Bethesda game that we can point to that was helped by mods in terms of sales was Morrowind. Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 / NV, and Fallout 4 have all vastly outsold the PC market with console sales. While mods may have had some effect on PC sales, Bethesda's bread and butter is in console sales, not PC. And up until Fallout 4, console users have never had access to legitimate mods.

[JuJooGuppy]

I see talk of the fact that people are still playing Skyrim and such due to mods, which absolutely is part of it, but that doesn't benefit Bethesda in the slightest. They are not making money because you are still playing Skyrim. As pointed out, most of the sales are console, aka mod free. Thus mods have nothing to do with the sales. So.. lots of mute points, really.


Again, it amazes me how entitled some people feel..

[kevkiev]

I see talk of the fact that people are still playing Skyrim and such due to mods, which absolutely is part of it, but that doesn't benefit Bethesda in the slightest. They are not making money because you are still playing Skyrim. As pointed out, most of the sales are console, aka mod free. Thus mods have nothing to do with the sales. So.. lots of mute points, really.

 

 

 

Well, no. We're not talking direct revenue for the most part. Console sales drop off dramatically over time, PC sales have a much flatter curve and, as evidenced by Skyrim, continue strongly years after release. Also, the idea is that the more people that keep playing a game, the more they tell their friends (for example) who go out and buy the game. (Console and PC - it's not an either/or thing.) There was an interview with Todd Howard (might have been Pete Hines or some other Bethesda rep) a while back, and he said as much. (BTW: it's "moot" points. Or, if you're a fan of Friends, "Moo" points :tongue: )

 

As a first-hand example, after me raving about skyrim, years after its release, to my console-playing neighbour, he went out and bought the game. Notwithstanding that part of my raves were about the mods I can use. (He's also thinking of getting a PC to join in the fun.)

 

If it didn't make business sense for Bethesda to make the Geck/CK, they wouldn't do it. It's naive to think otherwise. It's not about feelings of entitlement any more than it is a matter of heaping praise on Bethesda for some imagined sense of altruism.

 

Yes and no. Really the only Bethesda game that we can point to that was helped by mods in terms of sales was Morrowind. Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 / NV, and Fallout 4 have all vastly outsold the PC market with console sales. While mods may have had some effect on PC sales, Bethesda's bread and butter is in console sales, not PC.And up until Fallout 4, console users have never had access to legitimate mods.

 

Again, that ignores the fact that mods provide free market research and R&D for Bethesda. Features from mods show up in future games, so in a sense actually relate to console sales as well. You could see that in FONV, Skyrim and FO4.

Edited April 12, 2016 by kevkiev