Fallout 4 Creation Kit Beta info on bethsite

[Reneer]

Again, that ignores the fact that mods provide free market research and R&D for Bethesda. Features from mods show up in future games, so in a sense actually relate to console sales as well. You could see that in FONV, Skyrim and FO4.

Yes, you can point to one or two features that show up in future versions of Bethesda games. That doesn't really say anything about the overall argument, however. How much would you honestly say that the Settlement feature, on its own, actually contributed to sales of Fallout 4? I wager that it is minimal, at best. Highly popular mods also -don't- make it into future versions of the games, simply because consoles cannot handle them. Open Cities, high-resolution textures, always visible while distant objects, etc.

 

We can point to this and that anecdotal evidence all day long - the end result is always the same: console sales far exceed PC sales. They have ever since Oblivion. Even if mods contributed even 50% to sales on PC - which they don't - it's still small potatoes compared to the sales on consoles. Mods have simply been a thing because it is easier for Bethesda to keep working on the same development environment (the GECK / CK) and that development environment has the added benefit of easily allowing mods. As I've said previously, the push for paid modding is driven by Bethesda wanting to directly harness the revenue potential that modders can create for them, for free, versus the indirect method of simply "extending" the life of a particular game.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Reneer

[Rainmaker91]

I'm not going to contribute with any numbers here because I simply don't have them, but I think Kevkiev has a significant point when he says "As a first-hand example, after me raving about skyrim, years after its release, to my console-playing neighbour, he went out and bought the game. Notwithstanding that part of my raves were about the mods I can use. (He's also thinking of getting a PC to join in the fun.)" While PC players and mods may not directly affect sales, it's a big part of the core group of fans behind Bethesdas games. Having people who keep hyping the games 4 years after release isn't exactly bad for business, you can just as easily see this in a lot of different markets where one base hypes the products and the larger consumer base is easily affected by this for the most part. This core fan base is also a large part why a ton of people pre-order these games (because they just have to be good right? with so many people saying it WILL be awesome), which helps Bethesda sell games.

 

Again I don't have any specific numbers, but to say that the PC user base is insignificant is a bit ridiculous.

 

As for whether or not Bethesda should have released the creation kit earlier... I suspect they have their reasons that's making it take this long, I doubt it has anything to do with pushing DLC since we all know people who use mods will get all of them anyway (they tend to be required to use a lot of mods after all). If the DLC has any affect on the release date of the creation kit, it's probably that they can't afford to have as many people working on the creation kit while they still have to work on DLC (although I suspect it's two entirely different teams).

 

At any rate it's good to see Bethesda doing closed Beta for it at this point, which at the very least shows us that they are indeed working on it and it's not all that far from release.

[TeamBacon]

I think it is pretty obvious that from the very first creation kit that Bethesda made, that they unlocked a new level of potential awesomeness for their games.

 

Like any other highly popular feature, it brought more fans to the game. This is just the nature of making a product that people like and isn't unique to games by any means.

 

So by making this feature and making more people want their game, Bethesda made more money. That is what happens when you make a product people want to buy, you open up the possibility of being more successful financially. That isn't Bethesda trying to 'cash grab' or anything, it is just the industry rewarding them for making something cool 'The Creation Kit' and the company getting more sells as a result.

 

 

 

I think it is crazy to think that Bethesda views modding as just a way to make money, but I also think it is crazy to think the Bethesda is just a charity that is here to make stuff for us and that the people working there don't have to feed their families just like you and me.

 

Reality lies somewhere in the grey area, they work hard to make something people want to buy, and as a result people buy it. It isn't some scam to make money off of modders.

[PoliteRaider]

 

Reality lies somewhere in the grey area, they work hard to make something people want to buy, and as a result people buy it.

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

Half the time you can't even draw lines because there are so many parts of it where business concerns and artistic concerns line up perfectly. Even your most stereotypical penny-pinching corporate accountant type wants the game to be good because at the end of the day a good game with features people like is going to be good for the business and their bottom line.

[BlackRoseOfThorns]

Anyone saying that ongoing sales of pc port of the game are catching up to console version sales in the first two years couldn't be more wrong. Console players were willing to pay full price for the base game + DLCs and bought it soon after release, simply because it was the most interesting title for their platform. Nowdays pc gamers get interesting for example in Skyrim when the whole Legendary pack goes on Steam sale -66%-70% for a whooping 10eu total. Cut from this Steam share and the numbers won't be that impressive.

[BlackRoseOfThorns]

 

 

Reality lies somewhere in the grey area, they work hard to make something people want to buy, and as a result people buy it.

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

Half the time you can't even draw lines because there are so many parts of it where business concerns and artistic concerns line up perfectly. Even your most stereotypical penny-pinching corporate accountant type wants the game to be good because at the end of the day a good game with features people like is going to be good for the business and their bottom line.

 

 

There isn't a "good game" definition that fits each case. Some could argue that Flappy Bird was a great game due to amount of players and popularity. Then you have games with niche market and those that do not sell well at their price point to targeted audience, but deliver unique experience.

 

When selling a game you will have to sacrifice either your income or additional features you wanted to implement for the same price. Going with the first one might lead to finanacial problems and on the course of years laying off workers and closing down the studio.

Either that or you're EA buying small studios and milking money from games by tightening their budget plan. We lucky that our favorite TES and Fallout games are made by small studio that has free hand with their projects and is doing well.

[PoliteRaider]

 

There isn't a "good game" definition that fits each case. Some could argue that Flappy Bird was a great game due to amount of players and popularity. Then you have games with niche market and those that do not sell well at their price point to targeted audience, but deliver unique experience.

When selling a game you will have to sacrifice either your income or additional features you wanted to implement for the same price. Going with the first one might lead to finanacial problems and on the course of years laying off workers and closing down the studio.

Either that or you're EA buying small studios and milking money from games by tightening their budget plan. We lucky that our favorite TES and Fallout games are made by small studio that has free hand with their projects and is doing well.

 

 

Well yes that's true, I was just intending to use "good game" as short-hand for the phrase "something people want to buy" from TeamBacon who I was responding to. However it's certainly true that there are many different ways a game might be considered good that don't link directly to sales, especially on artistic merit.

[TeamBacon]

The point is, being passionate about making a good product and making money shouldn't be viewed as mutually exclusive things. People who make good stuff should be rewarded for it.

[BlackRoseOfThorns]

The point is, being passionate about making a good product and making money shouldn't be viewed as mutually exclusive things. People who make good stuff should be rewarded for it.

 

In reality just being passionate is not enough. There are technical aspects to the game design that you have to overcome in certain amount of time before you run out of money for your developers pay checks. Potential consumers won't reward you for trying to recreate your vision, they want a game that is:

 

-affordable

-stable

-capable to run on their low/mid spec pc OR console/android platform

-utilizing high end pc builds

-looks like next gen graphics or is styled in particular fashion

-cool enough to brag about

-keeping them entertained at all times

-providing new features they haven't tried before

 

People often forget that landscaping and quest design (which is what modders alter most often) is the final stage, but not the most important to finish a project. You need engine that will accomodate your desired gameplay mechanics and graphics, tools for your artists and designers (more indepth CK and plugins for 3d/2d artists) and for that you need skilled programers. Developement takes time and that costs money. You cannot work on your game for too long or it will become outdated too much when it comes to:

 

-hardware/software compability with newly released cosumer products (for example being forced to release 32bit game in the age of 64bit)

-acceptable graphics level (limited by the engine you are working with)

-technology used for calculating physics and AI

-desired type of game (the market can become oversaturated with similiar projects over the time)

 

Developers need to cut out some ideas and push the game out or it will never see the light of day.

Edited April 13, 2016 by BlackRoseOfThorns

[TeamBacon]

 

The point is, being passionate about making a good product and making money shouldn't be viewed as mutually exclusive things. People who make good stuff should be rewarded for it.

 

In reality just being passionate is not enough. There are technical aspects to the game design that you have to overcome in certain amount of time before you run out of money for your developers pay checks. Potential consumers won't reward you for trying to recreate your vision, they want a game that is:

 

-affordable

-stable

-capable to run on their low/mid spec pc

-utilizing high end pc builds

-looks like next gen graphics or is styled in particular fashion

-cool enough to brag about

-keeping them entertained at all times

-providing new features they haven't tried before

 

People often forget that landscaping and quest design (which is what modders alter most often) is the final stage, but not the most important to finish a project. You need engine that will accomodate your desired gameplay mechanics and graphics, tools for your artists and designers (more indepth CK and plugins for 3d/2d artists) and for that you need skilled programers. Developement takes time and that costs money. You cannot work on your game for too long or it will become outdated too much when it comes to:

 

-hardware/software compability with newly released cosumer products (for example being forced to release 32bit game in the age of 64bit)

-acceptable graphics level (limited by the engine you are working with)

-technology used for calculating physics and AI

-desired type of game (the market can become oversaturated with similiar projects over the time)

 

Developers need to cut out some ideas and push the game out or it will never see the light of day.

 

 

Your information is right, but it has nothing to do with what I was saying...

 

I was simply making a point about the false belief that the Creation Kit making TOS and Fallout better selling titles means that the developers only care about the money.

 

 

But hey, you can lecture me on the importance of having fresh fruit in my diet the next time I tell someone about the dangers of having low tread on their tires.