UK in/out EU?

[sunshinenbrick]

Is it a good thing that a campaign could potentially hide money away under another 'sub' campaign?

 

OK, so let's say the EU is not perfect - it has a lot of issues that comes about when lots of people get together. But we are one of the 'biggest' members and I find it hard to simply see the UK as some helpless bullied little sibling that doesn't know what is going on. I just find it far too easy to simply blame all the problems on everybody else and not seeing our own faults. What will leaving the EU change and how exactly? What sacrifices might have to be made?

 

The UK has the power to influence the world with what it chooses to do in the next few months. There is the potential for much stronger unity in the challenging future ahead of us. It just seems so 'un-British' to run away and hide.

[JimboUK]

Is it a good thing that a campaign could potentially hide money away under another 'sub' campaign?

 

OK, so let's say the EU is not perfect - it has a lot of issues that comes about when lots of people get together. But we are one of the 'biggest' members and I find it hard to simply see the UK as some helpless bullied little sibling that doesn't know what is going on. I just find it far too easy to simply blame all the problems on everybody else and not seeing our own faults. What will leaving the EU change and how exactly? What sacrifices might have to be made?

 

The UK has the power to influence the world with what it chooses to do in the next few months. There is the potential for much stronger unity in the challenging future ahead of us. It just seems so 'un-British' to run away and hide.

 

No one is hiding anything and it goes some way to making the funding fairer, the government have already spent £9m of taxpayers money on propaganda leaflets, not a penny of that will count towards the the remain groups spending limits, then there are the groups the EU has brought and paid for, the BBC, CBI and LSE are just a few of them.

 

No one sees the UK as "bullied siblings", what we see is a country that is governed by people we don't elect and cannot remove and don't try to suggest we have a say in anything, since 1996 the UK has not managed to block one single piece of EU legislation.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

Is it a good thing that a campaign could potentially hide money away under another 'sub' campaign?

 

OK, so let's say the EU is not perfect - it has a lot of issues that comes about when lots of people get together. But we are one of the 'biggest' members and I find it hard to simply see the UK as some helpless bullied little sibling that doesn't know what is going on. I just find it far too easy to simply blame all the problems on everybody else and not seeing our own faults. What will leaving the EU change and how exactly? What sacrifices might have to be made?

 

The UK has the power to influence the world with what it chooses to do in the next few months. There is the potential for much stronger unity in the challenging future ahead of us. It just seems so 'un-British' to run away and hide.

 

No one is hiding anything and it goes some way to making the funding fairer, the government have already spent £9m of taxpayers money on propaganda leaflets, not a penny of that will count towards the the remain groups spending limits, then there are the groups the EU has brought and paid for, the BBC, CBI and LSE are just a few of them.

 

No one sees the UK as "bullied siblings", what we see is a country that is governed by people we don't elect and cannot remove and don't try to suggest we have a say in anything, since 1996 the UK has not managed to block one single piece of EU legislation.

Is this to suggest that politics was not corrupt before the EU? Or even that it hasn't been our own UK politicians who have been nudging the ball...

 

I don't believe that leaving the EU will solve issues of corruption, and many of those who might mess up the country, in or out, will still be there and may never be pinned down because they are not invested in the country anyway cuz they have some offshore chalet and trust fund.

 

The benefit of having more people to push against this is vital in my opinion. Looking across the continent most of the people (not beurocrats but folks like you and I) largely want the same thing.

 

I still feel like the potential disadvantages of leaving are not being addressed and this is one of the major factors that makes it the least convincing option.

[ginnyfizz]

As I said before...EU accounts not signed off for twenty years. Nothing else in politics can come close to that level of corruption. I was watching Nick Robinson's programme about the EU the other day and literally threw my knitting* at that patronising Charles "Le Nez" De Gaulle issuing his "non". Why we grovelled to that pompous ass then and continue to grovel to the current bunch of EU leaders is beyond me, for nothing has changed. It's still them and us, they only want to hang on to us because we solemnly continue to pay in and operate their ludicrous diktats to the letter whilst other countries snicker. We aren't going to suddenly fall down a hole if we leave. Plus ca change (sorry can't find the cedilla but I believe the Academie abolished it...)

 

*My knitting - pure British wool. Wensleydale longwool to be precise, bah gum.

[sunshinenbrick]

A good deal of the political mechanisms and banking practices of the EU are of British origin. These are our biggest exports. This is the rabbit hole we may well sink into all on our own...

 

Who are we going to trade with and have invest in our companies if not Europeans? China? USA? India? Russia? We already have investment from these countries but the terms are by no means as generous or accomodating to the average worker as those negotiated through the EU - National Insurance? NHS? Childcare? The disabled? Don't make me laugh, we don't know how good we actually have it.

 

Even if it has flaws and can be ineffective, it is still closer to home and more in tune with our established rights as workers than anything we are going to find anywhere else. Not to mention all the investment towards international programs like CERN, European Space Agency and other such progressive projects that would leave us in the past if we lost the level of involvement that we have now.

[HeyYou]

What about all the money being sucked out of the UK, to help pay for other countries financial idiocy? leaving the EU will put the kybosh on that right quick.

[sunshinenbrick]

What about all the money being sucked out of the UK, to help pay for other countries financial idiocy? leaving the EU will put the kybosh on that right quick.

 

But as much as it might be a kick in the pants to everyone, it would also be a house of cards...

[JimboUK]

 

 

Is it a good thing that a campaign could potentially hide money away under another 'sub' campaign?

 

OK, so let's say the EU is not perfect - it has a lot of issues that comes about when lots of people get together. But we are one of the 'biggest' members and I find it hard to simply see the UK as some helpless bullied little sibling that doesn't know what is going on. I just find it far too easy to simply blame all the problems on everybody else and not seeing our own faults. What will leaving the EU change and how exactly? What sacrifices might have to be made?

 

The UK has the power to influence the world with what it chooses to do in the next few months. There is the potential for much stronger unity in the challenging future ahead of us. It just seems so 'un-British' to run away and hide.

No one is hiding anything and it goes some way to making the funding fairer, the government have already spent £9m of taxpayers money on propaganda leaflets, not a penny of that will count towards the the remain groups spending limits, then there are the groups the EU has brought and paid for, the BBC, CBI and LSE are just a few of them.

 

No one sees the UK as "bullied siblings", what we see is a country that is governed by people we don't elect and cannot remove and don't try to suggest we have a say in anything, since 1996 the UK has not managed to block one single piece of EU legislation.

Is this to suggest that politics was not corrupt before the EU? Or even that it hasn't been our own UK politicians who have been nudging the ball...

 

I don't believe that leaving the EU will solve issues of corruption, and many of those who might mess up the country, in or out, will still be there and may never be pinned down because they are not invested in the country anyway cuz they have some offshore chalet and trust fund.

 

The benefit of having more people to push against this is vital in my opinion. Looking across the continent most of the people (not beurocrats but folks like you and I) largely want the same thing.

 

I still feel like the potential disadvantages of leaving are not being addressed and this is one of the major factors that makes it the least convincing option.

 

 

I'm not suggesting there wasn't corruption before we joined the EU and that there won't be afterwards, it's the scale of it.

 

A good deal of the political mechanisms and banking practices of the EU are of British origin. These are our biggest exports. This is the rabbit hole we may well sink into all on our own...

 

Who are we going to trade with and have invest in our companies if not Europeans? China? USA? India? Russia? We already have investment from these countries but the terms are by no means as generous or accomodating to the average worker as those negotiated through the EU - National Insurance? NHS? Childcare? The disabled? Don't make me laugh, we don't know how good we actually have it.

 

Even if it has flaws and can be ineffective, it is still closer to home and more in tune with our established rights as workers than anything we are going to find anywhere else. Not to mention all the investment towards international programs like CERN, European Space Agency and other such progressive projects that would leave us in the past if we lost the level of involvement that we have now.

 

Europe is not going to vanish is a puff of smoke if we leave the EU, we'll still trade with them and they'll still be able to invest here as we'll be able to invest there, the difference is that we'll be able to do the same with the rest of the world, why be so inward looking? there's a big wide world out there. As for ESA and CERN they are nothing to do with the EU, Norway and Switzerland are part of the ESA and Israel part of CERN, none of them are in the EU. I'm not sure what your point about the NHS and childcare is, funding for those isn't going to stop, they'll be funded how we want to fund them, as for employment rights, the lower unemployment is the better it is for workers and unemployment will be lower, even Stuart Rose was forced to admit it.

 

 

What about all the money being sucked out of the UK, to help pay for other countries financial idiocy? leaving the EU will put the kybosh on that right quick.

 

But as much as it might be a kick in the pants to everyone, it would also be a house of cards...

 

 

I hope it is, the EU is suffocating Europe.

[sunshinenbrick]

Like I said, I am still considering my decision and I am merely trying to follow trains of thought so as I can feel as confident as possible in my decision.

 

This seems an impossibility though because the whole situation seems highly engineered, from both sides of the camp. Whichever way it goes there will be people who see it as a 'win' or a 'lose' and this will cloud judgement and lead to bitterness and wrangling. All the while those who are probably least affected by either decision sulk off and leave us to all pick up the pieces... that is after the possibilities of us destroying everything first.

 

Perhaps it is all too little too late, the pieces look set. The rest of the world is not as big and wide as we may think. In fact it is getting ever smaller and tempers are fraying. Things are splitting at the seams. Both campaigns know this, it was the plan from the very beginning.

 

I can see the pull of the promises, but it is the underlying causes and intentions that I think people need to take some responsibility for and realise the gravity of. Instead of putting pressure and energy into creating something, the last 30 years have been spent pushing a tyrannical agenda so as to try reinstate an empire. We have all been made chumps of.

 

It is important that we question and explore things much deeper than the rhetoric. We need to be making an informed decision and know what, and why, we are doing it. To simply leave (or stay) without doing so is to sit on the sidelines and suffer the unfolding of a tragedy we have helped to write.

 

I don't doubt for a minute however, that it won't be us sitting around on any sidelines in any event... We'll be the ones in the deserts, and on the seas... right up there, at the front.

[JimboUK]

Like I said, I am still considering my decision and I am merely trying to follow trains of thought so as I can feel as confident as possible in my decision.

 

This seems an impossibility though because the whole situation seems highly engineered, from both sides of the camp. Whichever way it goes there will be people who see it as a 'win' or a 'lose' and this will cloud judgement and lead to bitterness and wrangling. All the while those who are probably least affected by either decision sulk off and leave us to all pick up the pieces... that is after the possibilities of us destroying everything first.

 

Perhaps it is all too little too late, the pieces look set. The rest of the world is not as big and wide as we may think. In fact it is getting ever smaller and tempers are fraying. Things are splitting at the seams. Both campaigns know this, it was the plan from the very beginning.

 

I can see the pull of the promises, but it is the underlying causes and intentions that I think people need to take some responsibility for and realise the gravity of. Instead of putting pressure and energy into creating something, the last 30 years have been spent pushing a tyrannical agenda so as to try reinstate an empire. We have all been made chumps of.

 

It is important that we question and explore things much deeper than the rhetoric. We need to be making an informed decision and know what, and why, we are doing it. To simply leave (or stay) without doing so is to sit on the sidelines and suffer the unfolding of a tragedy we have helped to write.

 

I don't doubt for a minute however, that it won't be us sitting around on any sidelines in any event... We'll be the ones in the deserts, and on the seas... right up there, at the front.

 

Then don't listen to either camp, do your own research, the information is out there, just be wary of the source.