Mod Picker: The Fearsome Juggernaut

[mlee3141]

Redacted; no longer applicable.

Edited April 27, 2016 by mlee3141

[Elias555]

 

However, when the same person sees a "review form" in front of them, with a rating scale to "judge" the quality of the author's work with every breath, then their role suddenly shifts into an arbiter, and they begin to feel entitled, and thus, begins to dehumanize the author.

 

What do the people responsible for the coming demise of our modding community/ Mod Picker have to say about our valid needs and concerns?

Interesting! I'd love to see the source/citation for this.

 

 

It is done simply for the enjoyment of the process itself

 

mod authors who put so much blood, sweat and tears into their creations

My emotions have now pushed me to side with you.

 

 

"within their legal right to do so"

 

either they are either blacklisted by the Nexus, or they are taken down through copyright infringement/ lack of donations.

Good luck with that.

 

If you want to see some good arguments for and against the idea, I recommend you go through the threads yourself.

[Reneer]

For those of you who cannot view that 2nd link because you are not able to visit the Mod Author forum, the link goes to the "Mod Picker - Mod Author Discussion" thread created by matortheeternal. It currently stands at 20 pages of discussion between the Mod Picker team and mod authors. And many of the mod authors in that thread (full disclosure: myself included) do not readily approve of the Mod Picker idea or implementation as it has been described to us.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Reneer

[Thallassa]

Please stop spreading misinformation, mlee.

All of the information can be easily found on the relevant threads posted by matortheeternal, here (both in the MA forums and there was one last month in this forum), on STEP, and on Reddit. And afkmods and I think a bunch of other places too. Mator and Terrorfox are kinda crazy like that. :smile:

I've been told I'm not supposed to keep opening my mouth, since apparently I come across as pretty snobby, but since I live to spread knowledge, it'd be hypocritical to not provide a summary here. Beep boop.

Mod Picker in a nutshell: It's a place for users to share information; to streamline the diffusion of information from users who know a lot (mod authors or not) to users who don't know very much. It will be going into closed beta on May 1st and will be open to all on June 1st.

To go into slightly more detail:

Mods will be listed in our database by users - the information about the mod includes url for the mod, a file tree of the assets (similar to what you get if you use the magnifying glass next to a file on nexus), mod authors, mod aliases, and categories. Other users of the site can then add structured posts on each mod: compatibility notes (like "XPMSE works with Joy of Perspective if you click the right option in the installer"), load and install order notes (make sure to install Enhanced Landscapes after DyndoLOD but load it after), and reviews. This content can then be contested by other users if there is a mistake (since we all know mistakes happen), or simply marked "helpful" or "not helpful". By posting this content, and a whole bunch of other ways which are too long to detail in this summary, users gain reputation; posts that are more correct and posted by users with higher reputation will be listed higher than posts that are less correct, on each mod page. Users can build modlists on the site (this feature won't be quite ready for beta), and any relevant compatibility or load order and install notes will be displayed on the modlist. To actually download the mods and install the mod list on their computer, they will need to come to nexus. Statistical data such as number of downloads and endorsements will be scraped from nexus per url to add to the database. We have permission from Dark0ne for this. No content from the mod author will ever exist on our site.

 

There's obviously a lot of things I think are really cool about this, but the big thing is obvious just from the name - We're PCpartpicker, but for mods! That means searches and filters without the wazoo, like the ability to search for every Whiterun overhaul with the tag "trees" that's compatible with your current modlist. Or all ENBs with a rating over 8 and have been released in the last year.

The site will be supported by donations. We will not have ads. If for some reason the number of donations exceeds our server costs, yeah, I guess the team will pocket that money (or put it into making Mod Picker better)... just like Nexus does. Considering the thousands of hours that have already gone into building Mod Picker, it's not like we're getting anything for free.

Edit: Typo >_>

Edited April 22, 2016 by Thallassa

[Reneer]

Please stop spreading misinformation, mlee.

 

All of the information can be easily found on the relevant threads posted by matortheeternal, here (both in the MA forums and there was one last month in this forum), on STEP, and on Reddit. And afkmods and I think a bunch of other places too. Mator and Terrorfox are kinda crazy like that. :smile:

I imagine you appreciate the situational irony of your program Mod Picker trying to corral everything together... and the five places the Mod Picker program is being discussed. Only in one of those places, I imagine, is there any current discussion between mod authors and the Mod Picker team. And it is in a place that most mod users cannot go. Funny, that.

 

Here's an (incredibly) short paraphrasing of what is going on in the Mod Author forums regarding Mod Picker (and yes this is a biased accounting because I have a horse in this race). And when I write "we" / "us" I mean those mod authors who don't approve of Mod Picker, though there are mod authors in the thread who do approve of it.

 

Mod Picker Team: We have this thing called Mod Picker. It does this and this and this.

 

Mod Authors: Ok. We have questions / concerns about this and that portion (the review system).

 

MPT: This is a small portion of the site and isn't our real focus (the review system).

 

MA: We still have concerns about it. Also concerns about this other thing (Nexus site scraping). This is how we are concerned and why (reasons).

 

MPT: Ok, let us explain how it works in more detail... (explains review system / process and how they use an algorithm).

 

MA: Sorry, but we don't like it because of this reason and that reason (scraping Nexus content / the use of an algorithm). Also, can we opt-out if we want?

 

MPT: No. Wait, yes. You can opt-out. But we reserve the right to unhide the mod page on our site. This is "legally legitimate" (direct quote). We will set up a system so that reviews for your mod can be disabled (not sure how this would work since anyone can add the mods, not just mod authors).

 

MA: Can we change that to opt-in instead?

 

MPT: No.

 

MA: That sucks. A few of us really don't like this system for (reasons).

 

MPT: Too bad. We're building it whether you like it or not.

 

And done. There is a whole lot missing from that very brief summarization and I probably skipped around / put more emphasis on things I am personally concerned about. Sorry, but there's only so much I can do to summarize 20+ pages of text without making my fingers cramp up.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Reneer

[Laereal]

 

 

I imagine you appreciate the situational irony of your program Mod Picker trying to corral everything together...

 

What do you mean by this? Please elaborate further for those of us who cannot access the mod authors forum.

[Elias555]

Here's the first post:

Introduction
Dear Mod Authors,

This topic is to ask you about how you feel about Mod Picker. This topic is here to gauge interest as well as to open a discussion where you can share your concerns, perspectives, and thoughts on this idea. We are looking for any feedback that will help us accomplish our goals without stepping on anyone’s toes.


About
Mod Picker is an ongoing project to design a web application for modding similar to PCPartPicker. The goal is to help users in the building of a mod list using crowd sourced compatibility information and mods scraped from the major sites that distribute mods (Nexus Mods, Steam Workshop, Lover’s Lab).

For more general information about Mod Picker, please see the general discussion topic.


Clarification
I’d like to make some clarifications on what Mod Picker is and what it will do.



Mod Picker will not host or distribute your mods. Mod Picker will be to mods what Rotten Tomatoes is to movies. Mod Picker is a place where mod users (and authors) can share information about mods, and lists of mods. Mod Picker will drive users to your Nexus Mods page.

Mod Picker will only scrape statistical data from Nexus Mods. That means that if the user wants to see your description or comments section they have to come here, to Nexus Mods. Mod Picker is not about supplanting your mod page, it’s about augmenting it with community-sourced information. We won’t have comments on mods on Mod Picker.



You will be able to access a mod author control panel for your mods on Mod Picker. Access will be granted by linking your Mod Picker account with your Nexus account. The mod author control panel will allow you to manage tags and joint authorship options. Linking your account will also give you reputation on Mod Picker corresponding to the reputation of your mods.


Benefits
Mod Picker will deliver benefits to you, as a mod author, and to the community as a whole. These benefits include improved mod discovery, a public knowledge-base, community growth, and accurate information.

Discovery
Currently on the Nexus, mods which do not reach a certain level of endorsements are quickly forgotten, and older mods continue to dominate the top mods list because of popularity, rather than quality. Mod Picker will allow high quality but less popular mods to shine and be found by the masses. Through extensive filters, reviews, and a reputation system we will greatly enhance the likelihood of your mod being discovered and appreciated.

Knowledge
Over time, Mod Picker will become a vast knowledge base regarding compatibility, install order, and load order. We will also produce a number of tutorial resources and help pages to help users learn to download, install, and use mods. This will reduce the number of dumb user comments, and lead mod users to appreciate mod authors more.

Community
Mod Picker will function as a collaborative learning community, much like a wiki. This will bring modders and mod authors together, and save everyone a lot of time. It will be easier to find mods and to play a heavily modded game. The complexity of setting up a heavily modded game has been a massive turnoff for many people interested in getting involved in modding. Mod Picker will alleviate this problem.

Accuracy
You may be thinking that, given the amount of misinformation in the modding community, Mod Picker would quickly become saturated with inaccurate information. To mitigate this, we have a user reputation system. This system provides a means by which content can be sorted and evaluated. The word of users with high reputation counts more than the word of users with low reputation. In addition, users will be able to suggest corrections on crowd-sourced content. The community will then vote on the correction, and if it passes the original author or a reputable member of the community will be able to update the original content. This will allow Mod Picker to maintain accuracy over time, while also encouraging discussion and learning.


Discussion
Well, that’s the jist of it! Please let us know your thoughts. What you think and how you feel about this really matters to us.


Thank you for your time,
- Mator

The Mod Picker Team
Mator, TerrorFox1234, ThreeTen, Thallassa, Breems, Nariya, Pulec, R79, Sirius, Phill, Xgatt

Edit: As pointed out, it's the first post, not page. Fixed!

Edited April 22, 2016 by Elias555

[matortheeternal]

I imagine you appreciate the situational irony of your program Mod Picker trying to corral everything together... and the five places the Mod Picker program is being discussed. Only in one of those places, I imagine, is there any current discussion between mod authors and the Mod Picker team. And it is in a place that most mod users cannot go. Funny, that.

 

We posted in all those other places before we posted in the MA forum. It is Mod Authors who are choosing to have a discussion behind closed doors, not us. We're happy to take the discussion to public threads, though I'm not sure if mod authors would be happy with that (after all the language in the thread I think it's pretty clear that most of them believe mod users cannot possibly add anything of value to any discussion).

 

Also due to the nature of the General Mod Author subforum being unmoderated I imagine a lot of stuff has been allowed (specifically from our detractors, such as that slavery jibe) which would normally be deleted. It doesn't make a difference to me where this discussion takes place.

[Reneer]

 

I imagine you appreciate the situational irony of your program Mod Picker trying to corral everything together... and the five places the Mod Picker program is being discussed. Only in one of those places, I imagine, is there any current discussion between mod authors and the Mod Picker team. And it is in a place that most mod users cannot go. Funny, that.

We posted in all those other places before we posted in the MA forum. It is Mod Authors who are choosing to have a discussion behind closed doors, not us. We're happy to take the discussion to public threads, though I'm not sure if mod authors would be happy with that (after all the language in the thread I think it's pretty clear that most of them believe mod users cannot possibly add anything of value to any discussion).

 

Also due to the nature of the General Mod Author subforum being unmoderated I imagine a lot of stuff has been allowed (specifically from our detractors, such as that slavery jibe) which would normally be deleted. It doesn't make a difference to me where this discussion takes place.

 

I'd personally be more than happy to discuss this in public, Mator. You / your team just posted it everywhere else before coming to the Mod Author's forum so, not too surprisingly, most of the mod authors didn't see it until recently because they don't hang out on /r/skyrimmods.

 

 

I imagine you appreciate the situational irony of your program Mod Picker trying to corral everything together...

What do you mean by this? Please elaborate further for those of us who cannot access the mod authors forum.

 

What I mean is that it is situationally ironic that the Mod Picker program is meant to bring lots of things related to mods (compatibility lists, load order, etc) from all the different websites where they are discussed (Nexus, Reddit, AFKMods, Bethesda Official Forums) and put them under one roof (Mod Picker) but the discussion regarding Mod Picker is flung across at least 5 different websites.

 

Here's the first page:

-snip-

That's not the first page, Elias555, that's the first post in the thread. Edited April 22, 2016 by Reneer

[Laereal]

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with database dedicated to maximizing compatibility between mods. It's actually really needed in a community as massive as ours. Why would mod authors want to opt out of it when it's supposed to make act of modding so much easier for users?

 

Edit: Btw Reneer and mlee, I don't mean my questions to pose as accusations. I just wanted to know the reasons why you don't want to participate in something like this.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Laereal