Multi-culturism

[HeyYou]

I'll stir the pot a little.

There are communities of ex pat Americans living in many other countries where they don't bother to become fluent in the local language. Many of these are retirees who live there because the lower cost of living makes their pitiful retirement pension go a lot further. In Mexico, they tend to live in gated and fenced communities with armed security guards to keep out the locals. All of their neighbors are English speaking, they go to stores and restaurants where English is spoken. They see no reason to learn more than a rudimentary bit of Spanish. Other countries with these kind of communities are Belize, Costa Rica and several other central American countries. On the other hand, many ex pats do learn the language of their host country and do try to adhere to the local customs while there.

 

My own experience was as an Army brat living in both Germany and Japan in the mid 50s to early 60s. I lived in each country for 3 years and barely learned enough of either language to get by. There was almost always someone nearby who spoke enough English and would help translate. And if not, I made do with what little I did know and gestures. I'm sure many of the locals resented me as much as many Americans resent those who live in the US and don't speak fluent English. In Japan we lived on a base fenced off from the locals. But in Germany, we lived in the city of Munich, alongside of the local populace with a small group of other Americans as neighbors. Over half of the inhabitants of the apartment building were Native Germans who didn't speak any English.

 

Military is kind of a special case though. You didn't move there with the intention of spending the rest of your life there. This is also fairly unique to Americans, as we are the only ones that have military bases in foreign countries. (ok, maybe not the ONLY ones, but, any of the other countries that do, can count the number of bases on one hand...... we have somewhere in the neighborhood of 900....... some of which are simply forward operating bases, and I don't think should really be included in the count....)

[kvnchrist]

I'll stir the pot a little.

There are communities of ex pat Americans living in many other countries where they don't bother to become fluent in the local language. Many of these are retirees who live there because the lower cost of living makes their pitiful retirement pension go a lot further. In Mexico, they tend to live in gated and fenced communities with armed security guards to keep out the locals. All of their neighbors are English speaking, they go to stores and restaurants where English is spoken. They see no reason to learn more than a rudimentary bit of Spanish. Other countries with these kind of communities are Belize, Costa Rica and several other central American countries. On the other hand, many ex pats do learn the language of their host country and do try to adhere to the local customs while there.

 

My own experience was as an Army brat living in both Germany and Japan in the mid 50s to early 60s. I lived in each country for 3 years and barely learned enough of either language to get by. There was almost always someone nearby who spoke enough English and would help translate. And if not, I made do with what little I did know and gestures. I'm sure many of the locals resented me as much as many Americans resent those who live in the US and don't speak fluent English. In Japan we lived on a base fenced off from the locals. But in Germany, we lived in the city of Munich, alongside of the local populace with a small group of other Americans as neighbors. Over half of the inhabitants of the apartment building were Native Germans who didn't speak any English.

 

Why is this stirring the pot? I agree with you whole heatedly. Americans are not emperors that live in ivory houses over the natives. If you are apart of a culture you need to embrace that culture. Just look at what happened in Cuba, such a long time ago. Americans used that island for a playground and treated it's residences like butlers. The mob ran that place and showed that country the worst of what America had to show anyone. Colonialism isn't dead, it just put on a better face.

 

I was in the military and went overseas. I remember how Korea was. I remember parents selling their daughters to Mamasons, so they could become prostitutes and nightly, sell their bodies to soldiers. I got so tired of that place and how those people were treated. I have never seen so innovative and hardworking people in all my lives. I know that many Americans that are so spoiled with our lifestyles could learn a great deal from those people. I stayed on post after the first 6 months of a year and a half tour.

 

I was also in Germany, and did the exact opposite there. I was always out with the locals. I hardly ever stayed on post and I met several good people. I loved the German culture and the language was mezmerizing. German is a very old language that is actually spoken in different context than others. In English you would ask, "Do you speak german?" but in German you would say "sprechen sie deutsch/" or speak you German.

 

deutschland is the German name for Germany. It tell you I learned just what true pride was, when I was over there. I know a lot of Americans say they are proud, but in the same instance they toss a cigarette wrapper on the ground, or a discard a empty paper cup out the window of a moving car. Have you ever seen the way that the German people take care of their country? Heck, I went into a cemetery and the place looked like a royal garden.

 

I never meant any of this to be one sided only to promote discussion on things that could very well cause everyone problems.

[Deleted472477User]

I don't care how folks live their lives, what god they worship, or what name they use to refer to their place of worship. I don't care how the decide to classify themselves either, but, one thing that I think should be an absolute MUST, is LEARN THE DAMN LANGUAGE.

 

Sorry. This one pisses me off. :D

 

I am in full agreement on this. If you or I went to Abu Dabi or Barcelona or Moscow or any other place that doesn't have English as a first language, it would certainly behoove us to learn it. At least enough to gain a foothold while we learn the rest, especially if we intended to find work there and be a full legal immigrant.

 

Today my room mate and I stopped by McDonalds after doing a shop. We had to tell the youn g man at the drive through order what i wanted several times before he finally understood. I live in Denver and here, if you think to work in fast food--especially McDonalds--you'd better be Mexican. My issue is not their ethnicity. My issue is that many of them don't know enough English to understand what we're saying.

 

Not knowing the language makes it harder to get a job, especially in my field, since so many places are demanding bilingual Spanish here, and they prefer native speakers to those who studied it. I can sort of understand why--with Spanish especially, and i say that because we have a high Hispanic population here--you get the 'pure' language, without the idioms and slang and so forth. It still pisses me off though.

[bben46]

I have a good friend who is an immigrant and naturalized citizen from Chile. To hear him talk, you would never know that English is a language he never heard until he was 26 years old. You would mistake his accent for US Midwestern - He practiced that accent for years to perfect it. He teaches English as a second language at night 3 times a week at a local college. The classes are FREE! And they do not ask if you are legal or not. Even though most of the 'immigrants' in my region are Mexican, very few of his students are. Most of the spanish speaking students he does get are from other Spanish speaking countries.

 

I was with him and another Spanish speaking friend at a Mexican restaurant one afternoon when one of the employees (Actually a buss boy who cleaned tables) who spoke very poor English, said something derogatory about 'Gringos'. (Not us but some jerks at another table) Jim called him over and explained in Spanish, that Spanish is not a secret language and that many people actually do understand it who are not Mexican. For instance, the blond haired red neck looking guy at the table who had gone to the University of Zaragosa in Spain for 3 years and spoke nearly accentless Castillian. Then told him about the classes.

 

3 years later I ran into that same man at another Mexican restaurant where he was the assistant manager. He told me, in excellent English, that he had applied for citizenship and taking the free English classes had more than doubled his income in less than a year. He had bought a house. He was married to an American Citizen who also spoke Spanish (from Peurto Rico) and they were expecting their second child. Learning to speak English well improved his entire life. :thumbsup:

[kvnchrist]

There are good people and bad people everywhere. There are those who enter countries with every intent of becoming useful citizens of that country. There are also those that enter said country to benefit by what that country holds and has no desire to mix with the people or embrace anything of that culture. Wither it be Americans running to Mexico to live in cloistered communities far from the peasantry or religious purists living alongside the infidels they tolerate, the attitude is the same. This has nothing to do with immigration but everything with assimilation.

 

There are people who have lived in different countries for several generations and still declare themselves as something other than citizens of that country. Language is apart of this, but only apart.