mcguffin Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 (edited) Games are a story telling medium. If I have to spend 4x as long to complete the main quest of a game because I had to repeat stuff multiple times, that is time out of my life that I have lost. I could have played 3 other games in that time, I could have finished my mod in that time, I could have learned to play guitar in that time... I'm not interested in the silly concept of thinking I am somehow better than other people because I could beat such and such game without dieing. I want an experience, not bragging rights. Games (especially games like fallout4) are whatever you want they are.There are many way to play them. You are not interested by some ways to play fallout4, it's perfectly fine, but that doesn't allow you to define what is "poor" or "silly" for everybody Edited May 7, 2016 by mcguffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamBacon Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Games (especially games like fallout4) are whatever you want they are.There are many way to play them. You are not interested by some ways to play fallout4, it's perfectly fine, but that doesn't allow you to define what is "poor" or "silly" for everybody I am not allowed to define what is poor design, but you are allowed to define what is good design? I think not... You can enjoy bad design if you want to enjoy bad design, but that doesn't mean that I can't call it out for being bad design. I'm not stopping you, I'm not starting a petition to get survival mode taken away from you, I didn't hack your computer and take away your survival mode. Go play your poorly designed game mode, I hope it brings you hours of joy. But it is a gimmick, it is a cheap and uncreative way to try to add intensity. To take away something that is not a game mechanic (saving) and using the lack of basic functionality and choice to create tension as opposed to using good design and something creative to actually add something to the game is just lazy and inferior design that is beneath Bethesda. Good design would be using positive reinforcement, getting the player to invest in the game experience and use that to build tension. Using the negative reinforcement that you will now be punished for playing your game, using fear of a negative experience to put a player on the edge of their seat is against the basic principles of good game design. There are principles of what makes a good design and what doesn't, and I have every right to critique them as long as I don't do anything that interferes with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnout122812 Posted May 7, 2016 Author Share Posted May 7, 2016 So after reading all these comments I guess its safe to say its a 50/50 split between players that like it and complain about it. I don't hate it but there are just one or two things involved in it where I scratch my head at and wonder why it was done this way. I'm not saying I want it to be "easier". But I guess my biggest complaint is that it is a hardcore difficulty, which is what they should have called it instead of calling it "Survival". Cause what they did is not "Survival" to me...its "Hardcore" with some survival aspects to it. Now if "Survival" was made available in all difficulty levels we wouldn't be having this conversation (debate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcguffin Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 (edited) I am not allowed to define what is poor design, but you are allowed to define what is good design? I did not. Are you trying to say that a good design must be consensual?Because: no. Edited May 7, 2016 by mcguffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I really liked it for a couple of weeks...but then it just made my game too slow. I am playing normal now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderlord2200 Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 i find this mod to be to easy per say but also it dont feel like i am being survivalist. i find im eating way to much at a time. 9 can eat something now, like a steak and i could walk away from my sleeping area and already need more food and im in red, and same with water. so i got to the point i eat watermelons, or ramen and same effect. it seams like no-mater what i eat or drink im all to easily trusty. i been finding to be more of a pain the butt more then anything. but i would think if im deadly thrust or hungry i should be able to make my player happy after he drinks fresh water or something. not close to 10 bottles, same for food... (i never became like this even when i was hiking. the body can only get so much food or water at a time. and carrying that many waters it back braking.. and i find the hole sleeping thing is poorly dont. i should get a option to sleep, save, both or fast travel from any bed (or keep at it settlement based) I find healing us self is to easy in the game. (and stupid when u need that much sleep u have to take a antibiotic. )where is the doctors bag to fix broken bones? =/ Or something like that.. tho to make it harder i would have to so u slowly heal after that and u will take more damage in-tell it is fully healed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderlord2200 Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Games (especially games like fallout4) are whatever you want they are.There are many way to play them. You are not interested by some ways to play fallout4, it's perfectly fine, but that doesn't allow you to define what is "poor" or "silly" for everybody I am not allowed to define what is poor design, but you are allowed to define what is good design? I think not... You can enjoy bad design if you want to enjoy bad design, but that doesn't mean that I can't call it out for being bad design. I'm not stopping you, I'm not starting a petition to get survival mode taken away from you, I didn't hack your computer and take away your survival mode. Go play your poorly designed game mode, I hope it brings you hours of joy. But it is a gimmick, it is a cheap and uncreative way to try to add intensity. To take away something that is not a game mechanic (saving) and using the lack of basic functionality and choice to create tension as opposed to using good design and something creative to actually add something to the game is just lazy and inferior design that is beneath Bethesda. Good design would be using positive reinforcement, getting the player to invest in the game experience and use that to build tension. Using the negative reinforcement that you will now be punished for playing your game, using fear of a negative experience to put a player on the edge of their seat is against the basic principles of good game design. There are principles of what makes a good design and what doesn't, and I have every right to critique them as long as I don't do anything that interferes with you. thats what they call a bumbed down poorly made fallout game.. oh wait we got that at release.. its a shooter with rpg elements (not even close look at Duse EX ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderlord2200 Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 there I don't agree. I guess you are one of those guys who consider they *lose* hours of game if they die.I am not: I enjoy my game even if my character dies, because what I enjoy is the immersive factor of the insecure feeling. I never understand that "losing" thing.Those hours of play are for you, you can't lose them. It's not a job. Games are a story telling medium. If I have to spend 4x as long to complete the main quest of a game because I had to repeat stuff multiple times, that is time out of my life that I have lost. I could have played 3 other games in that time, I could have finished my mod in that time, I could have learned to play guitar in that time... I'm not interested in the silly concept of thinking I am somehow better than other people because I could beat such and such game without dieing. I want an experience, not bragging rights. you said it better then i ever could my friend, im after a good experience, and i really wanted one with f4 and all i got was a feeling of being lied to and ripped off for buying a game that's not fallout.... or the experience like you would get from a real fallout game. not a shooter with barley any RPG aspects in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamBacon Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 you said it better then i ever could my friend, im after a good experience, and i really wanted one with f4 and all i got was a feeling of being lied to and ripped off for buying a game that's not fallout.... or the experience like you would get from a real fallout game. not a shooter with barley any RPG aspects in it. You misunderstand me, and I couldn't possibly agree with you any less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dainsgames Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 "and inferior design that is beneath Bethesda." Sadly, I disagree here. This is exactly what Bethesda has been doing for several games now, just more so with each new game. I honestly can't forgive them anymore. When they started out, it was easy to give them passes on broken design, because they were trying hard and it showed. But that ends with the sequel, since they have everything they need to do a better job. They've had several sequels with this same engine, and their design is more and more crap every time, culminating with this one. This game is early beta design at best. They just got things working to alpha, gave it a fix and polish pass and said "Beta's over, time to get paid!". Aaand it's not, because we players cannot be expected to follow their test scripts as we play an open-world game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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