Arthmoor Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Don't touch the precombined meshes. Jon said those are not intended to be viewed in that manner as they appear to be more mathematical in nature than actual visible things to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted2547005User Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 or use InvisibleGeneric.nif like i did on the Rebuilt series before the CK released. its almost 0 impact even when there are MANY loading. Nice. Was it a simple rename the nif to those precombined nifs? Editing the nifs might work, but combined meshes are weird. If you open one up in nifskope (newest release can read them), it has plenty of BSTriShapes (with associated lighting shaders) and that sort of thing, even has the collision data. Absolutely nothing is visible though, and the file size is tiny compared to the combined size of the meshes they are comprised of. I'd honestly be worried about the game CTDing from editing the nifs, because Fallout 4 can be very picky about how different kinds of meshes are formatted (like static collection vs static, for instance). It might be possible to delete all the associated collision and "mesh" data in the nif without the game spazzing out, but that is something we'll need to test.Yeah, they are really weird, but there's no need to edit them, we just need the to not load and using dummy files would work just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 The issue has been acknowledged by Bethesda: https://community.bethesda.net/message/80972#80972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted2547005User Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Thanks but it doesn't reveal anything I didn't already know (not the technical specifics anyway), but confirms that this isn't a bug, but ignorance on the modder's part of the game's optimization system. In the end, it will come down to the old issue we've had since TES4 - mod conflicts. What works for my mod would be undone by ours (or anyone else's) and vice-versa. Could this system be better? Yes. Could it be improved? Yes. Will Bethesda do any of that? No. It works as intended, just not like we wish it to. We'll just have to bulls*it the game into doing things our way. Which is fun! Now that the precombined and previsual has been addressed, maybe they'll look at the reset and sprinting bug caused by cell record copies. The former can be cured by an ESM flag, but the latter can't be dealt with without an ini change. Both are not viable options, the former causes unneeded conflicts in the future and the other (as far as I know) is not possible on consoles. Personally, when I edit a reference, I always make it a persistent reference, that way the record is added to the persistent cell instead of the temporary cell. Being housed in the persistent cell doesn't cause any reset or sprinting bugs and as long as you aren't dumping thousands of persistent references into the cell it doesn't impact game performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I don't think it's a good idea to force persistence either because that's not going to mean the same thing it did in games older than Skyrim. It's as much a hackish workaround as anything else. I wasn't really happy with the developer answer we got on that thread. It literally sounds like the only solution is to generate new precombined data for a 3x3 grid around the cell you want to mess with. Which is probably fine if you're making significant changes. It's absolutely unacceptable if you're editing a tire iron's respawn flag :P In any case, since the issue I was attempting to work around still happens without the UFO4P active, I'm no longer going to worry about it. This is on Bethesda now for creating a system where straight mesh replacers are no longer guaranteed to work so it's going to have to fall to those authors to deal with it themselves. As far as cell reset is concerned, that issue was reproduced in-house and they said a patch is pending to fix it. Making ESM files in general isn't going to be a viable solution to anything until they fix their load order problems with the official DLC showing up after user generated ESM files. Anyone who does that right now, IMO, is responsible for the problems they'll be causing for anyone not using a 3rd party mod manager or who is using the mods on consoles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted2547005User Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) I'm sorry my ideas are "hackish" - I just do want needs to be done. Edited May 13, 2016 by Kuroitsune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It wasn't meant as an insult, but it is the truth. Persistence comes at a cost along with every other end run solution people are using. This issue is going to be a long term plague for this game as long as Bethesda leaves things as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuJooGuppy Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 So, having read the threads, I understand that you have to generate the 3x3 of the precombined's... but can we actually DO that even? If so, anyone got a link to an explanation that a relatively new but not incapable of reading mod author could read up on it and learn how to do it? As it stands, its going to be absolutely essential for a lot of my mod, unfortunately. Very frustrating system, as Jon pointed out, this system is going to make something as awesome and simple as the Static Mesh Enhancer style mod simply unfeasible / essentially useless/ impossible, as A) you'd have to generate what would basically become EVERY cell in the game, and B) it would conflict with any mod that changed any of those cells, too.Really sucks, and honestly its a big drag on FO4 modding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlp Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 So, having read the threads, I understand that you have to generate the 3x3 of the precombined's... but can we actually DO that even? If so, anyone got a link to an explanation that a relatively new but not incapable of reading mod author could read up on it and learn how to do it? As it stands, its going to be absolutely essential for a lot of my mod, unfortunately. Very frustrating system, as Jon pointed out, this system is going to make something as awesome and simple as the Static Mesh Enhancer style mod simply unfeasible / essentially useless/ impossible, as A) you'd have to generate what would basically become EVERY cell in the game, and B) it would conflict with any mod that changed any of those cells, too. Really sucks, and honestly its a big drag on FO4 modding. Follow Arthmoor link just above. fireundubh also said he added it to the CK wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuJooGuppy Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 So, having read the threads, I understand that you have to generate the 3x3 of the precombined's... but can we actually DO that even? If so, anyone got a link to an explanation that a relatively new but not incapable of reading mod author could read up on it and learn how to do it? As it stands, its going to be absolutely essential for a lot of my mod, unfortunately. Very frustrating system, as Jon pointed out, this system is going to make something as awesome and simple as the Static Mesh Enhancer style mod simply unfeasible / essentially useless/ impossible, as A) you'd have to generate what would basically become EVERY cell in the game, and B) it would conflict with any mod that changed any of those cells, too. Really sucks, and honestly its a big drag on FO4 modding. Follow Arthmoor link just above. fireundubh also said he added it to the CK wiki. Ah, I see the explanation on the wiki, I didn't actually see the how in the thread. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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