What is wring with the American Educational system

[greywaste]

I didn't read the whole thread as this is just a quick quip from a 'foreigner', but the thread title is a little redundant in my opinion - I've seen rapidly declining school systems in Britain and Denmark too, so I'd guess this is a Western problem in general?

 

As for Art & Music, they should be available, but I also think that schools should have trade skills (construction, plumbing etc) available to teach at say 14+ for pupils who aren't going to make University so at least they leave school with something they can use to earn a living (Art & Music being useful in this respect too).

[Kuraikiba]

America's education is about on par with Lesotho's...

[marharth]

This is a debate topic and I am expressing how I feel about art and music classes being taught in school. I am not lecturing anyone. I find it pretty insane that everyone is replying to that like I am trying to be some kind of overlord.

 

Also to make myself clear, if the system was changed I would have no problem with optional art and music classes.

 

I already know English. I just don't bother checking everything in my post before making it. I am sure everyone can understand me just fine.

 

To respond to everyone individually...

 

 

 

@Aurielius Lets see...

 

Civics - Claiming people should be forced to work for their government is not a very good standing point for civics. I am in support of civic duty, just because I don't think it should be required does not mean I am not educated on the topic.

 

History - Using a president that did not support of civil rights as a example to go against lying in campaigns.

 

English - Sorry if I don't check my grammar and spelling all of the time, but I could post a few sentences of yours to prove you do quite a bit worse on this subject.

 

 

 

@SilverDNA

 

I don't recall saying anything about literature. Maybe we have a misunderstanding on what art and music classes are. The problem with trying to interrupt what the artist meant is that you don't know, and the way the school system is now they will simply use a single answer without any critical thinking involved.

 

 

 

@Keanumoreira

The other parts of the post will cover this.

 

 

 

@Granny As I mentioned in the first part of this post, I already am educated on that information. I simply don't always check everything I post since you will be able to understand it regardless.

 

I feel that art is important but the way I see the school system now it will not help at all being taught within it.

 

Instead of looking at something and trying to decide for yourself what something symbolizes, you will be given a test and forced to answer what the school think it symbolizes.

Edited August 2, 2011 by marharth

[Saraane]

Sorry to post on an "older" topic but...

I just have to put in my two cents.

 

Why can't we just have some competition between the schools? True, rich people either move or send their kids to private (mine weren't rich and sacrificed a lot to get me a good education in private school) but public schools are GOING to get the majority of kids in their district.

 

Why don't we do what we SHOULD have done when integrating and let the parents CHOOSE where to send their kids? The schools that have the kids get the money. The system should be similar to the Swiss', the money moves with the child. No parent, no matter how crappy, is going to choose to send their kid to a bad school. They just can't afford to leave where they are. I guarantee you... within just a matter of years, we would have good schools again because the bad ones would have failed and the good ones would have grown.

 

We would need to allow just 50 or so new students a year in a school so that the good school would have a chance to expand gradually and the bad schools could hear the death knell...

 

Public schools were started so that people would know enough to work in a mill or factory...

 

Can't you tell?

 

Students are NOT taught how to think, to question their teachers/parents and learn for themselves how the world works. They are taught how to test well, and how to go with the status quo. SOME teachers are great in public school and do try to teach their students how to think, don't get me wrong. But those teachers are going against the original purpose of the American Educational System.

 

My link

[Vagrant0]

Students are NOT taught how to think, to question their teachers/parents and learn for themselves how the world works. They are taught how to test well, and how to go with the status quo. SOME teachers are great in public school and do try to teach their students how to think, don't get me wrong. But those teachers are going against the original purpose of the American Educational System.

 

My link

This ^

 

The other side of things is that really, there aren't many intelligent role models and far more outright idiotic ones. Speaking well or even knowing anything is regarded as a less useful thing than just about everything else out there. I don't blame MTV so much as I blame the degrading crap that MTV seems to play these days... Case in point... "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant.". A Series where they feature ghetto trash teen mothers who are so oblivious to their own existence that they can't tell that there's another life kicking around inside them for 9 months... Now, you can understand maybe a few who never had the birds and bees explained to them, but to have a Series that even ends up running for a few seasons is just plain dumbfounding if it isn't staged, and outright disgusting as a commentary on the human condition if it is.

 

The problem is that right now you have 3 generations (the oldest is mostly unemployed) of kids who have been fed this sort of thing and the Nike "Everyone can be a pro athlete" dream. And in the last 2 generations, a greater push toward confidence instead of competence. I've heard of teachers being sued because they gave a child poor marks and because of those marks, "irreparable damage" was done to the child's sense of confidence. :facepalm:

 

We basically have children who are built up with this belief that everything they do they will succeed at, and society seems to do a great job in rewarding or atleast covering outright failure. In this environment, why should a child strive to be better?

 

 

The problem is the education system and society in general. Not the teachers. Typically teachers work for crappy wages and deal with resentment and hostility from students, parents of students, and the administrators for doing the best job they can, and damnit, they deserve credit for doing a job that most could never do day in day out.

[Saraane]

Lol I try not to watch those displays of stupidity. But you did just make me giggle... an impressive feat considering that I might have drowned my kindle (precious) :ohdear: I'll know in the morning. It's sitting in rice now.

 

Just a reflection on what I was saying. The people in control now are the PRODUCT of the "lets teach our children to not think" educational system... and the younger someone in control is... the more time the system has had to adjust. There's a reason COLLEGES now have REMEDIAL courses. (Isn't that an Oxie for morons?)

 

It just ain't working. It's broke, so fix it. Schools that aren't getting money will either reform or close (while a better school opens nearby). I'm not suggesting anything terribly radical here. It's not like I'm suggesting the money is attached to kid and can even go to (say it isn't so!) private or even... religious schools!!!! I just want every kid to have a chance at a good education.

 

It's pathetic that I was able to teach a (rather bright) fifth grader to read JUST BY USING A DIFFERENT METHOD than the teacher used! Before she came to me, she could hardly read Dick and Jane and in a MONTH I had her sounding out surgery in class! Phonetics/sounding out the word worked for her... the look see system... failed quite miserably.

 

If you haven't already watched it... watch Neverlution on the comedy channel. I am texting you "trophies" right now...

[marharth]

Students are NOT taught how to think, to question their teachers/parents and learn for themselves how the world works. They are taught how to test well, and how to go with the status quo.

Which is why I think art and music classes fail terribly in the current system.

 

You are tested on what the school thinks the artist meant, you are not taught to be freethinking and decide what the artist meant for yourself.

[ub3rman123]

Students are NOT taught how to think, to question their teachers/parents and learn for themselves how the world works. They are taught how to test well, and how to go with the status quo.

Which is why I think art and music classes fail terribly in the current system.

 

You are tested on what the school thinks the artist meant, you are not taught to be freethinking and decide what the artist meant for yourself.

 

...You've never been in an art/music class, have you?

[marharth]

Students are NOT taught how to think, to question their teachers/parents and learn for themselves how the world works. They are taught how to test well, and how to go with the status quo.

Which is why I think art and music classes fail terribly in the current system.

 

You are tested on what the school thinks the artist meant, you are not taught to be freethinking and decide what the artist meant for yourself.

 

...You've never been in an art/music class, have you?

I have, why do you think that the system changes for certain classes? Its the same all around.

 

When I was in high school there were mandatory art and music classes. They worked the same way all the other things worked. You are told something and tested on it. Did not involve freethinking at all.

 

I am speaking from my experience, maybe art and music classes do change from the rest of the system for some reason. From what I have seen, they just tell you something and give you a test.

 

EDIT: Fixed grammar mistake.

Edited August 11, 2011 by marharth

[ub3rman123]

Okay, mandatory art classes are pretty bad in that aspect. However, the ones that you can actually opt into signing up for are very good for allowing you creativity in your works, at least where I am.