Kids or No Kids?

[Lisnpuppy]

 

@Lisnpuppy: No I am not quite ready to have my nuts cut off, for as I have explained things may change although the odds of that happening are very slim. In the meantime I´ll definetely use birth control and currently I´m using the most effective kind, not having sex at all (actually I have been using that method all my life so far), and the odds of that situation changing are very slim aswell (these university ladies at Joensuu know their own worth and won´t settle for a fat, unathletic, poor, loser like me.). But still, sterilisation is much like suicide, it is a permanent solution and I´m not quite ready for that.

I know at least one man who said he never wanted children and now he is a father and for all I know a happy one. It seems that us men have a magical switch that goes "click" after we become fathers and suddenly we become model parents. :biggrin: It must be something in the evolution that made a man care about a child, or something of that sort.

 

My younger sister and her boyfriend who both have graduated, have jobs and just recently bought a house are considering of having a child, so my parents dream of having grandchildren will likely be realized regardless of my actions or attitudes, destiny (or whatever) has seen to that, but likelihood is that from me their hopes may very well be dashed.

 

Why are women around me all telling me "never say never" ?? My mind is jolly well made up and it´s not going to change by a magic touch of love or something. No woman could ever wield enough influence over me to change my mind on that matter and although miracles do happen as Lisnpuppy so worryingly stated, in 98% of the cases the birth control is effective, more so if you use TWO methods, just to make sure.

 

Needless to say, an "accident" would be disastrous in my current condition. If it happened I would go for abortion, but that´s the woman´s choice, not mine. When a child is conceived the law automatically jumps to the mothers side, obliging the man to pay his part in its upkeep. Some accept the situation and become good fathers, but I suspect I would have a tough time loving a child I did not originally want. Besides, how do you explain to the child when he/she is older and questions you about his/her beginnings, that you did not actually want him/her?? Originally my mother did not want any children, but luckily for me and my sister she changed her mind or I would not be here writing this (is that a good or a bad thing?).

 

 

 

Well the last time I checked a vasectomy was NOT as you so eloquently state, "getting my nuts cut off." It is reversible and there is always a possibility to give a donation to the cause as it were....and make a deposit for later if you decide to have children.

 

I agree that you are not in the kind of position one would want to have children...I also personally think to plan one would be a mistake in how you describe your life. However my point is that life changes and things happen. I feel that when a person states "never" they paint themselves into a corner. It isn't wise as life...and Lady Fortune have ways of making you take that statement and choke on it.

 

The ability to love a child has little to do with if you wanted it to begin. I was not "ready" to be a mother...I went over all the options when I found out. I decided to keep my child regardless of the Father's decision to be in her life. I am the type had he wanted nothing to do with her...I would have gotten something from an attorney that he was giving up his rights as a parent and that she could in the future be adopted in return for not requesting anything from him. It would have broke my heart as I am very close to my own Father (who actually didn't want a child when I was born...and it was not until after my birth and "meeting" me for the first time as a few weeks old infant that he had his epiphany.)

 

I think men in general...even when they want children are a bit behind. They do not have the ability to feel the baby grow inside them..be excited of the changes going on and my Daughter's Father really didn't get into it until she began to smile and do little things showing her personality. In truth....many women claim they loved their child from the moment they pushed them out. I didn't...I was very sick and had a rough time. I felt very protective and worried...but not love. I FELL in love with my daughter and continue to do so every day. As to what she is told...she is told I didn't plan for her but I love her and would do anything for her in my power and would not now change it if I could...and she believe this because it is the truth. She knows I do not see her as a inconvenient happening that I felt morally obligated to raise.

 

I feel sad that you think yourself so incapable of love that the mere accident of birth would preclude you from loving something that is so precious and a part of you. I am not the type of woman that thinks the be all, end all of life is birthing a baby. I don't go around telling folks to have children and shoving a pile of pictures in their face. Some people should NEVER have kids and heck, I don't know you so I can't say. I don't know you so I guess I don't care. What is sad that you seem to limit your capacity to love things...based on presuppositions you have made. You have conditions on what you love and when....and how maybe? Perhaps this...and not your credit score or lack of prospects is what keeps you from having someone at your side?

 

[Deleted472477User]

Gods, I'm almost afraid to say how I feel, given the responses I've read.

 

I don't hate kids. I think kids are fine, I just never had the urge to have my own. Maybe that makes me a horrible selfish person, especially since I am female. I'm 46, and never had that dreaded clock go off. I think it was broken from the start!

 

Part--a big part--is thta my mother verbally, emotionally and borderline physically abused me, and this (minus the physical) continued into adulthood. Even with counselling, the effects on me haven't gone away. I have other issues, which I won't discuss here. I don't want to inflict this on an innocent child, and as I said, even with counselling, I don't consider myself a fit parent.

 

I guess to some of you this makes me a bad person, but to me it's far worse knowing you aren't fit, having kids anyway, and ending up being a terrible parent who doesn't give a damn. It's on the news, all the time, people who had no business having children who have them and abuse or even kill them.

 

Plus, this planet is way, WAY overpopulated. I don't want to add to it. Gods know there's enough babies born every day to make up for my lack of contribution.

 

Point is, wanting kids doesn't make you a great and wonderful person, and not having them doesn't make you Voldemort mixed with Satan.

 

EDIT: For the love of god, please don't anyone say "well then how do you know until you've tried?" I know, and it's my decision, and it's a final one. Children are not exotic foods or new hobbies--they're a lifetime commitment and not for everyone. I don't *think* anyone here would say this, but it has been said to me before.

Edited August 5, 2011 by nyxalinth

[ub3rman123]

I don't think so. I read an article on Cracked about what the woman goes through in pregnancy.. I doubt I'd want to put my wife through that unless she really really wanted to.

 

(No wife yet, by the way)

[ginnyfizz]

bben: The meaning of life is not kids, the meaning of life is 42. But in all seriousness, I feel bad for anybody who really believes this. And even worse for the people who are incapable of having children who believe this.

 

>This<

 

I am one of those people who could not have children. I refused to let the idea of having kids be my raison d'etre and consequently did not spend either a huge amount of financial resources (neither mine nor the NHS's)or emotional resources in obsessing about getting kids. I got on with my life, recognising that for me, it was not to be.

 

I really do wish that people would not portray the childless as being either lacking in true emotion or maturity. My infertility was caused by PCOS. And now I'm menopausal. Better shoot me now then. And for the childless by choice, it can often be a courageous choice given the amount of pressure and odd/pitying/condescending/horrified looks that you get.

 

Shame on you Bben46, I would really have expected better from you. Hedonistic lifestyle does not come into it in many cases. Expecially in this day and age of precarious employment situations - I for example am at risk of redundancy YET AGAIN. And I'm not on my own.

[Deleted472477User]

bben: The meaning of life is not kids, the meaning of life is 42. But in all seriousness, I feel bad for anybody who really believes this. And even worse for the people who are incapable of having children who believe this.

 

>This<

 

I am one of those people who could not have children. I refused to let the idea of having kids be my raison d'etre and consequently did not spend either a huge amount of financial resources (neither mine nor the NHS's)or emotional resources in obsessing about getting kids. I got on with my life, recognising that for me, it was not to be.

 

I really do wish that people would not portray the childless as being either lacking in true emotion or maturity. My infertility was caused by PCOS. And now I'm menopausal. Better shoot me now then. And for the childless by choice, it can often be a courageous choice given the amount of pressure and odd/pitying/condescending/horrified looks that you get.

 

Shame on you Bben46, I would really have expected better from you. Hedonistic lifestyle does not come into it in many cases. Expecially in this day and age of precarious employment situations - I for example am at risk of redundancy YET AGAIN. And I'm not on my own.

 

 

thank you, ginnyfizz, you worded it very well indeed. I did want to say something about it, but I couldn't find the words, aside from what I did say.

[dunmermaiden]

I had 2 kids, both with disabilitys ( 1 severely autistic ) and youngest ( developementally delayed ) My eldest boy has extremely chalenging behaviour and my now ex husband couldn't cope with it. Our son would bite his arm like one bites a apple. Consequently our marridge broke up and by then our eldest boy was taken from us. I had my youngest right up till this year but I gave him up because of the stigma attached to having lost my eldest boy to the authorities. People were very hard on me and I faced a choice where there was no win solution.

 

The choice was to keep my son and face having a nervous breakdown and losing him anyway or giving him up and keeping my sanity. I chose giving him up and well I want to share because it a important aspect to this debate.

 

 

I will say, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't yearn for my kids and grieve. It's taken over my whole life, a neverending grief that never lessens or ceases it's like they are dead but I cannot bury them and move on.

 

So, consider what happened to me. I love my kids don't get me wrong but I would choose not to have had them if I had known how it would turn out. Hindsight is wonderful thing.

[draconix]

I really do wish that people would not portray the childless as being either lacking in true emotion or maturity. My infertility was caused by PCOS. And now I'm menopausal. Better shoot me now then. And for the childless by choice, it can often be a courageous choice given the amount of pressure and odd/pitying/condescending/horrified looks that you get.

 

You have no idea how much of a relief it is to hear that. I think I was so long-winded in my original post in this discussion mostly because I felt like I was already on the defensive because we do get those looks or talks, even/especially from within our own family. It's not an easy choice to make. Not only do we have to fear the scorn of society, but in our old age we'll have nobody. That's a little frightening.

[Lisnpuppy]

Just for the record...and I don't know to whom all you are referring...but I didn't say there was anything wrong with no having children...what I had issue with was the OP saying he doubted he could love a child he did want (which I took to mean one he didn't plan for) and I felt that was sad. It also isn't right to get down on those who do have children.

 

@Dianne....I feel for you so much and though I can not imagine such grief you must feel...one must do what they need to do. You knew that you were not able to provide what your son needed and you made sure that you got him where he could get it. I don't think that is horrible...I think that is the greatest gift a Mother can give her children...the chance for something they need...the chance for something better even when it hurts.

[marharth]

Damn, a lot of people are saying no...

 

I plan on having kids later in my life.

[ginnyfizz]

Nonono, Lis, it was Bben46's remark that I found insensitive, not yours. It is a bit much saying that having kids is the meaning of life when there are bound to be people on here (I doubt I'm the only one) who have had infertility issues and, for that matter, when there are people like Balagor who has courageously confronted his psychological issues and taken the decision that it would not be right to have children. There are also those who decide that their economic circumstances are so precarious that they feel they cannot bring a child into the world. In the UK there are plenty who, due to the monumentally generous welfare state, decide the exact opposite in order to obtain social housing and extra welfare benefits. Please don't tell me that the former group are worse people.

 

No, I did NOT say that you have to be loaded with wealth to give a child a stable, loving and caring background. When I speak of precarious economic circumstances, I am talking about the sort of people who have taken a look at their situation and decided that they maybe don't have security in regards to their housing or job situation, and have decided that they do not want to have a child in those circumstances.