Traitor or Savior?

[SilverDNA]

This has happened in the past and is occurring today, but by what methods is it carried out currently in western countries today?

 

An Example how this works:

If a demonstration occurs and the police send undercover agents into the ranks of demonstrators to provoke violent activities in the ranks of demonstrators against the police, so that the later move in with force to put the demonstration down. The resultant action damages the validity of the activist's contention.

 

Now on hypothetical basis what would happen, if a western state would try to suppress by this methodology a human rights activist, that is fighting within the boundary's of laws for a oppressed minority today?

 

What if Government, Judges, Political Parties, the Media and some of the citizens view that activist as traitor and want desperately to get his reputation impugned or the send the activist to jail so that problems of the minority shall not be viewed in public and debated.? While the activist is trying to let the citizens see that their lawsuit is abused in their name to oppress a minority, or in such way carried out (on paper the laws exists, but in practice they are never carried out) that it becomes lip service to those that belong to a minority, that is in such away oppressed.

 

I now ask the community here to debate how a western government carries this out today, what damage does it cause to human rights and what can be done against it legally? How is it that a human rights activist can be publicly viewed as savior (by a oppressed minority) or traitor (by the oppressing majority)?

[grannywils]

Well, Silver if I am understanding your question correctly you are asking for examples of how such a person would be viewed. One example I could give you in this country's fairly recent history would be Martin Luthor King. He was demonized by many and sanctified by many others. And yet he was simply a man with a belief, and he stood up for that belief. He spoke what he believed in spite of the obsticles placed in his way. In my personal opinion he along with many, many, many others (with the help of his name and leadership) were largly responsible for the inroads made in the civil rights movement in this country. He was a human being, and a flawed one at that; just as we are all flawed. He was not a miracle worker, he was just a man. And, yes many people with ulterior motives attempted to knock him down; but he got back up again. That is sometimes the price we pay to be the voice in what seems like a vast wilderness. It may not seem fair. In fact it is not fair. But it is what it is.

 

I'm not sure if that is what you were getting at, but it was my initial gut reaction, written in just a few moments. Please let me know if I am misreading your post or if you are looking for something different.

[HeyYou]

Given that the government is carrying it out, (and yes, we see this today in western countries......) the average joe or jane doesn't have a hope in hades of stopping it. By the time said events come to light, the damage to the activists reputation is already done, so, in that vein, the government wins. Now, once the public actually knows that the activist was 'set up', so to speak, those in the upper layer or two of authority over those that actually were doing the deed in the field, will be fired, disgraced, ostracized, and then life will move on, and the next set of authority figures will use the exact same tactics. Most times, they don't get caught..... but, the instigators tend to take some lumps....

 

Hero or Traitor just depends on which side of whatever issue it is at the time in question, that you happen to be on. If you side with the activist, the instigator is a traitor, and should be drawn, quartered, and hung by his own entrails. If you side with the government, the instigator might be a person of less than stellar reputation, but, would be viewed as a necessary evil, and those that made us of him would be the heroes.

[draconix]

As the phrase goes, history is written by the victor. It's sad but true. :dry:

[HeyYou]

As the phrase goes, history is written by the victor. It's sad but true. :dry:

 

And re-written by later generations, to paint the victors in the best light. :D

[kvnchrist]

What do you think the political parties in America have been doing for ages. Along with their media friends. All they do is play the gotcha game. Try to catch their opponents saying the wrong thing or taking things they say out of context. I've seen several you tubes that are derogatory to one side or the other and the authenticity of any of these vids can't be verified.

 

It's always the same old story and the same old line. I'm your friend and he is your enemy. Keep me in office and I'll protect you from him. What a load!

[Flintlockecole]

"I fear no man, nor his creations. I will never trust those who are government." So be it, I will be a traitor for wanting to see a better day for all people.

[Aurielius]

I think someone should play Devil's Advocate, in this period of extremist terrorism it is incumbent on governments to infiltrate fringe groups to know exactly what they are up to, after they park and blow up a car bomb in the middle of a city street it's a tad too late. Unfortunately to be proactive in terms of counterintelligence it means that it is necessary to shift through the innocent to find the guilty. When an governmental agency oversteps it's mandate, then there are sanctions in most western governments to reign them back in, but when they fail to do preemptive intelligence everyone wants their heads on a platter. At the same time that Martin Luther King was being illegally wire tapped the Weathermen were blowing up buildings in US cities, there were subsequent sanctions for the King affair but conversely the Weathermen were broken up, tried and incarcerated (those that didn't blow themselves up by accident). I am certain that the Liberal members will have a field day with this point of view so I await their self righteous indignation with droll amusement.

[HeyYou]

And then we have those "intelligence plants" that instead of trying to find out what some groups agenda is, they try and lead the group in a specific direction, so they can then be arrested, and broken up. Not to mention incarcerated.

 

The Hutaree in michigan is a good example of that...... Here was a group of men, that really didn't care for what the government was doing, and since they had a "name"...... various law enforcement agencies decided they needed to be 'watched'.... Well, they inserted their 'watcher', who then led these men down the garden path, and got them accused of all sorts of nefarious behavior. Trouble was, none of it was real. The 'plans' these men had, were nothing but smoke and mirrors, presented by the law enforcement agencies, that were nervous about their mere presence in american society. I mean, seriously, they actually QUESTIONED the legitimacy of our government, and what the real goals of the government were. Can't have people thinkin' for themselves now can we?