A Mirror of Vietnam?

draconix · August 12, 2011

@ grannywils: Well stated.

greywaste · August 12, 2011

A Crime family and one of the worlds most powerful armies removed with an elected governement replacing it and Al Qaida and the Taliban as an actual governing power pretty much out of the picture with the loss of less than five thousand troops?

The only resemblance I see to Vietnam is that there are a multitude of reasons and goals for both and that the peaceniks once again were happy to sit back and watch people be murdered and live in absolute misery and squalor generation after generation and have those nations used as proxies for war against the west rather than make a painful choice that involved the lesser of two evils. The Hmong people just to name one tribe were just so happy to see those foul imperialists get off their (err I mean the "people's republic's") land :rolleyes:

The North Koreans now are on average a few inches shorter than people South of the border thanks to decades of malnutrition and stavation at the hands of that crackpot family.

HeyYou · August 12, 2011

A Crime family and one of the worlds most powerful armies removed with an elected governement replacing it and Al Qaida and the Taliban as an actual governing power pretty much out of the picture with the loss of less than five thousand troops?
The only resemblance I see to Vietnam is that there are a multitude of reasons and goals for both and that the peaceniks once again were happy to sit back and watch people be murdered and live in absolute misery and squalor generation after generation and have those nations used as proxies for war against the west rather than make a painful choice that involved the lesser of two evils. The Hmong people just to name one tribe were just so happy to see those foul imperialists get off their (err I mean the "people's republic's") land :rolleyes:

The North Koreans now are on average a few inches shorter than people South of the border thanks to decades of malnutrition and stavation at the hands of that crackpot family.

The people of Iraq were better off with Saddam. They didn't have to deal with IED's, they didn't have folks with bombs strapped to themselves running into mosques, or police stations, or government buildings, they had electricity more often than they do now, and oil production was about the same. Sure, saddam killed people, sometimes wholesale, but, how many civilians died in the war, and since then? The numbers make Saddam look like a piker. I would also point out, that the US were the folks responsible for Saddam being in power in the first place. He was our 'buffer' between Iran, and the rest of the world. That most certainly isn't the case today.......

Afghanistan had the government (taliban) the people there allowed to be in place. If they had wanted a democratic government, it was well within their power to rise up, and give the taliban the boot. And rationalizing the invasion, and overthrow of a legitimate (if distasteful to the west) government, on the excuse that "terrorists are there"....... just doesn't wash. According to popular theory, our "job" there, was to find Osama. Does it take invading a country, and overthrowing a government to find one man? (didn't seem to work very well now did it? took us ten years to find him, and then, he wasn't even IN Afghanistan, he was in Pakistan, our supposed "ally"....) Now, most of the terrorists are in Pakistan, our "ally", by the above reasoning, we should invade pakistan, and overthrow that government as well. And what about Syria? Lebanon? Iran? and numerous other third world countries that harbor terrorists, and finance them as well? Shall we overthrow those governments as well?

Some of our allies were worse than saddam. And when the people rose up to topple those governments, did we side with out 'allies'? Nope, we sided with the 'revolutionaries', and turned on our one-time allies. That certainly is a vote of confidence for some of our other allies now isn't it? Then we stick our noses into the Libyan situation, and Yemen. Don't we learn anything from our past? We flat out SUCK at nation-building. Why do we insist on continuing to inflict a value system on people that DON'T WANT IT?

The United States of Arrogance needs to get OUT of the "World Police" business. We aren't any good at it, and more importantly, we just can't afford it. The countries that we have invaded, or, helped someone else overthrow a government, or going to go right back to what they were before we intervened, with just a different set of names heading whatever government. They will still be just as corrupt, and just as distasteful, and maybe even more dangerous than what was there in the first place.

I also have real issues with spending billions to blow up a country, only to turn around and spend billions more, building it back up again. That's just stupid. If you are going to blow something up, let someone ELSE pay to rebuild it.

Edited August 12, 2011 by HeyYou

draconix · August 12, 2011

A Crime family and one of the worlds most powerful armies removed with an elected governement replacing it and Al Qaida and the Taliban as an actual governing power pretty much out of the picture with the loss of less than five thousand troops?
The only resemblance I see to Vietnam is that there are a multitude of reasons and goals for both and that the peaceniks once again were happy to sit back and watch people be murdered and live in absolute misery and squalor generation after generation and have those nations used as proxies for war against the west rather than make a painful choice that involved the lesser of two evils.

Did you just use "peaceniks" as some sort of derogatory term? o_O You are a sick, sick person. This interventionist foreign policy is what put those people into power to begin with. Also, the US doesn't exactly have a good track record for setting up actual democracies in other countries, considering we've killed several elected officials and replaced them with people that we do approve of. And five thousand people is 5000 too many. Can you visualize 5000? Let me help you:

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Each one is a grave. Each one is a dead father, son, mother, daughter, wife, or husband. Each one is a dead person who died because 2000 lost in 9/11 wasn't enough. And that's just the armed troops we've sent, completely disregarding the innocent people that have died in the crossfire. Think of their children, their freinds, and their families.

Our "goals" are complete, and people are still dieing. The cost of this "war" is more than I want to pay.

Edited August 12, 2011 by draconix

grannywils · August 12, 2011

I am out of this thread now, but will just add to what Draconix has said. The total death count in Afghanistan and Iraq is closer to 920,000 and the total injuries is over 1,700,000. The figures include U.S. troops, coalition troops, Afghanistan and Iraqui civilians and journalists, as well as Afghanistan and Iraqui troops. FYI, the largest number is represented by civilians, not troops.

Jagermh · August 12, 2011

Maybe the reason that Vietnam is so similar to Afghanistan/Iraq is because that's how modern warfare goes now. Guerrillas on one side, and a superpower on the other. I don't think we have much of the old days when people just got in lines and shot each other.

We can't have a normal war between two superpowers anymore because of nuclear bombs and ICBMs.

Jagermh · August 12, 2011

Accidental double post. Edited August 12, 2011 by Jagermh

Nintii · August 12, 2011

@ Angilla ....

I hear where you're coming from, your nation should have ended the wars you folk were in a long time ago.

but things are not so clear cut, unfortunately the people of those nations were hostile instead of grabbing the opportunity to rebuild something

new after the old dictatorships were removed.

This just messed with the whole timetable I'm sure.

In my country we experienced a long and protracted Bush war all because some peacenik in Washington decided that my father's generation should not put an end to the old communist onslaught.

We had the old soviets on the run and were killing them and the East Germans by the dozen.

We were poised to invade a communist propped-up nation along with the anti-communist rebels but because of said peacenik, the tables were turned and the Marxist regime which was on it's last legs were actually handed the country.

This ridiculous request led to hundreds and thousands of people being brutally murdered and today millions live in poverty because of the failed regimes that came into being because of that idiotic decision.

Is it any wonder then that I have such an intense passion to see the utter end of Marxist, communist and radical left wing pacifist peaceniks bite the dust.

The notion that all one's enemies will choose the path of peace or not fight with you if you refuse to retaliate or take up arms in response to their attack is a delusion.

And so it is with many a nation, the enemy within is greater than the one on the outside.

Nevertheless, I hope that your troops come home soon both safe and sound.

The figures that Grannywils quotes are horrifying to say the least.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Nintii

RZ1029 · August 13, 2011

I'd just like to say I voted we turn the area into a glass parking lot for Israel to park their tanks, like, six years ago.

RZ for president and all your problems with mysteriously disappear one day.

You know you want to vote for me.

ub3rman123 · August 13, 2011

I'd just like to say I voted we turn the area into a glass parking lot for Israel to park their tanks, like, six years ago.

RZ for president and all your problems with mysteriously disappear one day.

You know you want to vote for me.

Unfortunately, nukes usually result in many more civilian deaths than a conventional war, even as the war is being run now.

A Mirror of Vietnam?

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