How to deal with upload permission requests from gmod.com

[jaime74]

Hi everybody,

 

I've received a PM with a request from http://gmod.com to grant permission for uploading my mod to their site.

I didn't known that site so far, and am quite unsure about how to deal with this, so I'd like to ask what others think about it.

 

Generally speaking, there's probably nothing "foul" about other sites asking whether they are allowed to publish a mod that was originally published on tesnexus. There are so many alternative TES sites out there that it would be ridiculous to ignore them.

 

In my case, however, I have NOT given my permission, and that's for the following reasons:

 

• any updates to my mod would need to be published on the external site as well, which would involve much more efforts and communication, without a noteworthy gain (I like to keep things clear and transparent in one well-known place).
  
• from my point of view, the mod is already sufficiently presented and made accessible to players inside the TES community. I have no intention to "wide-spread" it any further. That's just a persoal decision, of course.
  
• I believe that an upload of the file itself to external sites is not a good idea, because a mere link to tesnexus would do it all the same, but in a much better way.
  

In addition, before being able to grant my permission for such an upload, I'd like to get more information about gmod.com:

 

• What is the concept behind that project? Is it commercial?
  
• What are the terms of handling copyright and intellectual property concerning other people's content that is published there?
  
• Is gmod.com intending to compete with tesnexus in any way?
  

I suppose that projects like gmod.com are trying to gain money by publishing 3-rd parties' content on a site that is sponsored by advertising. Although - very strictly speaking - tesnexus is doing the same (advertising, earning money with premium membership etc.) - it is still different, because the user content on tesnexus (i.e. the mods) is created inside the community, so I consider it the original "creation" of tesnexus somehow (and, in the first place, of the modders themselves, of course).

 

gmod, vice versa, is just trying to "harvest" that content instead of creating something on their own. Furthermore, the fact that they want to UPLOAD the files instead of just LINKING them indicates that they have no interest in supporting (or at least crediting/honoring) the original community (tesnexus), from which the files derive, which in turn indicates that they are really trying to "compete" somehow.

 

There's nothing illegal about that, it's just a matter of taste and believes. In my opinion, it brings no real gain for modders, except for those who really like to advertise their mods in the wide open. But I for my part don't like the idea of supporting such an obviously commercially oriented project that wants to make money from harvested ideas that are not their own.

 

Maybe I am wrong in my opinion about that, or at least a bit "too harsh"?

I'd really love to learn about others' opinions about this.

[samadchaz]

yup ive got one too for my HUD alive but I told them that the main mod HUD status Bar is still in waiting for Modder's permission.

I just told them to come back when they get the permission but I am still waiting :happy:

[ub3rman123]

There was a bit of a stink earlier regarding GMOD.com. At least they ask permission now.

[jaime74]

There was a bit of a stink earlier regarding GMOD.com. At least they ask permission now.

Ah... I see, thanks. I had searched the forum for "gmod.com", but obviously missed that one.

So it seems that my feeling wasn't completely wrong: Those guys have just started another try to get this through.

I'll keep to my decision, then, and won't permit them to use my mod!

[jaime74]

In the meantime, I've received a reply from gmod.com to my refusal.

They're trying to explain their concept and policies (which earns some respect, at least) but I don't consider it convincing.

 

I think it can be helpful for others to know about it.

Here's what they are stating (reproduced in my own words, according to my understanding):

 

1. Uploading/updating functions on their site is fairly similar to Nexus, so maintaining a mod on both sites (including regular updates) should be easy
   
2. They claim gmod.com is completely free "at the moment" and in the future it will probably have "the same model that Nexus uses" (free downloads, but with "some advertisement").
   
3. They claim to have permissions for most of the content on their site. The rest is only content that is explicitly free for use. And even then (so they say), they are asking in advance for permission.
   
4. They don't want to compete with Nexus directly, (quote)"but since our site has similar functionality with Nexus, some form of competition will probably be unavoidable. However we are doing our best to avoid that."(quote end)
   
5. As an alternative to uploading the files, they offer "the download page to be directed to another site like Nexus".
   

 

And these are my opinions about these statements, which is also what I sent as reply:

 

1. That doesn't explain why they don't just LINK the mods with their proper tesnexus url. As long as they only want to upload the files, I assume that they don't have real interest in supporting/crediting/honoring the community from which they took the files.
   
2. They're neglecting to point out one definite difference: They're just "harvesting" foreign content instead of raising a community that produces attractive content on its own. That's why gmod.com is NOT the same as tesnexus.
   
3. That may all sound proper and legal, as long as gmod is really doing as they say. But it doesn't convince me of the benefit it should bring in for me: As long as it just replicates other sites' content (see above) in order to attract traffic, sponsored advertising and probably membership fees (that's how I am interpreting it), there is no point for me in supporting it.
   
4. Based on my thoughts written above, I believe that they actually do plan to compete, or let's put it in better words: to benefit from other people's work and make their own money out of it. In fact, I consider the "open source and sharing mindedness" the "key spirit" of communities like tesnexus. Naturally, this shouldn't contradict sharing content with other sites, too. But there should always be a giving and a taking, a mutual exchange without commercial or marketing related interest. What gmod.com seems to be planning is merely taking.
   
5. Lots of gaming sites out there are doing exactly that. I can't see how any modder could effectively avoid/prohibit such a thing. But doing that won't gain them any sympathy credits, and it doesn't compensate for my scepticism explained above.
   

These are only my personal beliefs in that case, of course! Every modder should decide for himself how he thinks about such a thing.

 

Furthermore, one should also respect that gmod.com are actually asking for permission in advance, whereas others may be simply doing all of this without the modders' knowing, so one shouldn't be too harsh by judging them for doing this in such a proper way!

But on the other hand, if I should detect any similar site out there that has obviously taken my content without my knowing and without a convincing reason or concept behind it, I would also react very hashly and clearly state my opinion about it. Asking alone doesn't prove their concept to be convincing, and it cannot be the only reason for supporting it.

 

Hope this is helpful for others.

[wrinklyninja]

Shoot to kill (metaphorically, of course). It's the only way to deal with scum like them.

 

Yeah, they caused a bit of a stink. Not being a regular here I don't know what the response here was, being mostly mod users, but we basically burned them at the stake over at the BethSoft forums. They're asking for permission now, but before they were basically scraping Nexus for mods.

 

Of course, choose what you think is right, but bear in mind that they have a record of not just disrespecting modders' wishes, but actual copyright theft. It's not the sort of place I'd want to host my stuff, even if it was treated OK.

[ub3rman123]

The guy did give a heartfelt apology, so I'm under the impression that it's morally fine to upload to them now. They aren't going to disrespect their community again.

[jaime74]

Well, I tend to give in to both of you:

 

@wrinklyninja: Yes, you're expressing exactly my intuitive feeling I had about them from their initial request.

@ub3rman123: Yes, maybe you're right as well. I should mention that I've received another reply from that guy, in which he's explaining quite politely and soberly once again what they're doing, and I believe now that they are really trying to restore some trust without just "grabbing" or seeking direct competition.

 

For me, this doesn't change much. It's just a matter of taste. I personally don't see the point and the benefit in their doing, so I won't allow them anything concerning my mods.

But at the same time, I'd feel quite stupid trying to play the "wise guy" or the "judge".

 

I think: Let them do whatever they want, and let all the modders decide on their own. I wouldn't dare to disrespect anybody who likes to give them their permission.

 

Because the most important point is: I am convinced that tesnexus is such a strong and stable community that such "copycat free-riders" can't do it any harm.

[Maigrets]

I'm with wrinklyninja 100%.

 

If I get an email from them my answer will be a resounding no. I've read the topics here and at the official forums and they definitely started out on the wrong foot. Now they "appear" to be contrite and are asking permission but that says nothing as far as I'm concerned. Once someone agrees to their files being on the site what guarantee is there of what happens to them. Access to update, delete or anything else an author may wish to do?

 

At least they are asking this time unlike Softpedia earlier in the year. I received 15 emails on after the other to tell me they had added my mods to their database...after the fact, and despite that my readmes say to ask me first. My readme's were also altered and permission info and credits for resources were not included. Anyway, long story shortened, I was was able to have them removed after I emailed their contact person with some very stern responses to their actions.

 

Unfortunately, other modders I know of at other forums have had no luck in getting their mods removed from Softpedia and don't get a reply from the site managers either.

 

In the end there's little one can do to stop other individuals or sites uploading mods without permission. If they don't ask, or even if they tell you after they've done it when it's difficult or impossible to get them removed, many modders would never even know unless someone spotted them and knew the authors wishes. Not saying gmod.com would do this particularly after the furor, but mods and other files can be hidden behind permission access restrictions as some forums are known to do.