Why are some people cruel to animals?

[Ghogiel]

That wasn't my point I was making. I wasn't saying our ancestors didn't eat meat therefore we shouldn't. the point I made was to further debunk the construct that it's in our genes to eat meat .

I did read that. The protein required can be attained through other foods and beverages such a soy milk to name one. Which is where I get most of my protein. However lentils, brocholi, etc. even rice has protein.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by in our genes to eat meat means. You mean we aren't carnivores? well yeah.

[Aurielius]

@Arcane 20

Lets cut to the chase, you think raising and killing animals is cruelty and I still like a good steak, in fact I like venison also and am quite willing to go into the woods and take my quota of deer every year to slate my lust for it. I sincerely doubt that I will convince you of a blessed thing and the likelihood of me retiring my gun dog and hunting permits is nil, so you have fun with your vegimite sandwich and I'll enjoy having a nicely braised duck in apricot sauce ( have five in the freezer right now, along with venison from last fall). Oh, and having tasted Ostrich only regret that they are not indigenous to America.

 

I cannot respond to this properly with out getting banned. I think your comment is posted purely to get a reaction out of me. Post another comment like that and I'll see it as trolling.

 

Actually it was an honest live and let live post, you go your way and I'll go mine. You may see it under any light you like, but before you start tossing out terms such as 'trolling', you might want to peruse the rules on forum vigilantism yourself. Kindly do not tell me what I may or may not post , that is not your prerogative. That my fanatically intolerant friend is the province of the moderators which last time I checked does not include you.

[arcane20]

@Arcane 20

Lets cut to the chase, you think raising and killing animals is cruelty and I still like a good steak, in fact I like venison also and am quite willing to go into the woods and take my quota of deer every year to slate my lust for it. I sincerely doubt that I will convince you of a blessed thing and the likelihood of me retiring my gun dog and hunting permits is nil, so you have fun with your vegimite sandwich and I'll enjoy having a nicely braised duck in apricot sauce ( have five in the freezer right now, along with venison from last fall). Oh, and having tasted Ostrich only regret that they are not indigenous to America.

 

I cannot respond to this properly with out getting banned. I think your comment is posted purely to get a reaction out of me. Post another comment like that and I'll see it as trolling.

 

Actually it was an honest live and let live post, you go your way and I'll go mine. You may see it under any light you like, but before you start tossing out terms such as 'trolling', you might want to peruse the rules on forum vigilantism yourself. Kindly do not tell me what I may or may not post , that is not your prerogative. That my fanatically intolerant friend is the province of the moderators which last time I checked does not include you.

 

I'm well aware of the rules. I'm giving you a friendly warning I will see any further comments like that as trolling. Then it'll be down to the moderators to decide. There was no need for that comment nor was their any argument being made. I saw it with nothing but malicious intent. If I was wrong then you should have no problems not taunting me like that again. Unless that was your intent. While you may say you go your way and i'll go mine i'm not going anywhere. The thing is there has not been 1 argument here that I haven't been able to debunk. And then you just say "It's my right". Well that's the issue isn't it? Do you have the right to slaughter animals for your own personal gains. I think you should justify your right. If you can't do that then I'm sorry but hands down you've lost. Now you can walk away and do as you will until the laws change but it i'm not going to say that it's ok to eat animals.

 

edit:

That wasn't my point I was making. I wasn't saying our ancestors didn't eat meat therefore we shouldn't. the point I made was to further debunk the construct that it's in our genes to eat meat .

I did read that. The protein required can be attained through other foods and beverages such a soy milk to name one. Which is where I get most of my protein. However lentils, brocholi, etc. even rice has protein.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by in our genes to eat meat means. You mean we aren't carnivores? well yeah.

 

If you look towards the start of the debate some people were claiming that it's 'natural to eat meat'.

 

Anyways bedtime will continue this tomorrow night. :thumbsup:

Edited September 4, 2011 by arcane20

[Ghogiel]

If you look towards the start of the debate some people were claiming that it's 'natural to eat meat'.

 

Ok, but that is pretty fair statement. Saying it is natural to eat rocks or something I might have a problem with, but eating meat is natural enough for humans. And it has nothing to do with genes. :psyduck:

[ginnyfizz]

Personal opinions are irrelevant in a logical debate. You know it doesn't do your comment justice to go and deliberately make a provocative comment like that. Not to mention it was you who first made the "You're quite clearly from the meat is murder group" or whatever implying I'm some sort of terrorist or idiot. It's just ignorance because neither of you have an argument to make. I'm just going to assume you haven't got one and you're beaten. You've already admitted that humans don't need meat. So what you're really saying is "you're right but i'm too lazy to change my diet besides I like meat so i'll just rub it in your face". As I said to the other guy do that again and i'll see it as trolling.

 

Let's say that we raised some humans up in brilliant standards where they were treated very very well. And then we killed them for food in the same way we kill animals. Is it right or is it wrong?

 

Oh...I thought it was for the moderators to decide what was relevant in the debates thread?

- I do like meat. I find it absolutely delicious. Due to assorted medical conditions, and the chemotherapy I take for them, or maybe a combo of both I suffer from moderate to severe anaemia and fatigue, (no, not laziness)so my medics seem to think eating it is a good way to keep me ticking over. Even if it were not for that, I would still consider it my right to eat meat when I want, just as it is your right not to eat it.

 

Again, you should not be trying to direct people as to what they can or can't post. That is for the staff to say.

[Balagor]

Being cruel to animals covers IMO anything from birds in to small cages, the way some (not all) farmers treat animals during transportation, beating, yelling at, having locked away.

We don´t have to do those cruelties, because we know better and can teach our children to do better with animal.

Nature (metaforic) itself is cruel to the core, slow deaths and great pain is every days menu in the wild. Think of how many animals that dies slow deaths this very minute. When I eat my steak I know that we have a good labeling system, so I can rest well a shure that my steak had a good life and a swift death before it ended on my frying pan. Am I cruel to animals then? I don´t consider my self so. I have rescued many a deserted cat, I allways let out spiders and flies instead of killing them. Cruelty is about respect or lack of respect.

[buddah]

I am only going to say this once.

 

@arcane20

 

This is the debate forum, not a place to try to browbeat and coerce others to you way of thinking., You give the definite appearance of a forum vigilante, and I do not like those who threaten others.

 

Change your ways or the hi-way is in your future. Having an opinion is a necessity of life, how and where you express it is an option.

 

Threaten another on this family of sites again, and the door will be hitting you where the good lord split you so fast you won't know what hit you.,

 

 

Buddah

 

 

 

[arcane20]

If you look towards the start of the debate some people were claiming that it's 'natural to eat meat'.

 

Ok, but that is pretty fair statement. Saying it is natural to eat rocks or something I might have a problem with, but eating meat is natural enough for humans. And it has nothing to do with genes. :psyduck:

 

Well it might be natural but being natural doesn't make it moral in anyway. Humans are also naturally xenophobic but it doesn't make it ok.

 

- I do like meat. I find it absolutely delicious. Due to assorted medical conditions, and the chemotherapy I take for them, or maybe a combo of both I suffer from moderate to severe anaemia and fatigue, (no, not laziness)so my medics seem to think eating it is a good way to keep me ticking over. Even if it were not for that, I would still consider it my right to eat meat when I want, just as it is your right not to eat it.

 

 

The first part yes some people will benefit from eating meat. Some people have iron and protein deficiency and it may be unreasonable to replace these with suplements. You'll have to research that yourself. But the suffering that is prevented must be greater than the suffering caused for it to be justified.

Now again you need to state why it is your right to eat meat. Rights aren't something that is given to someone without reason.

 

edit: missed one

Nature (metaforic) itself is cruel to the core, slow deaths and great pain is every days menu in the wild. Think of how many animals that dies slow deaths this very minute. When I eat my steak I know that we have a good labeling system, so I can rest well a shure that my steak had a good life and a swift death before it ended on my frying pan. Am I cruel to animals then? I don´t consider my self so. I have rescued many a deserted cat, I allways let out spiders and flies instead of killing them. Cruelty is about respect or lack of respect.

Again nature isn't always right. Just because something happens in nature doesn't justify any of our actions.

There are many things which aren't natural which you would deem as good and many things that are natural which you would deem as bad. Such as smallpox and hurricanes. Also Cruelty is about suffering not respect.

Edited September 5, 2011 by arcane20

[ginnyfizz]

You're at it again, trying to dictate what people have to say. I do not have to explain why it is my right to eat meat, any more than you have to explain why you have the right not to.

 

The last I heard, when something is legal but not compulsory, which the slaughtering of animals and their selling for meat is (although it is quite properly heavily regulated), that gives you the rightto choose to do it or not to do it.

 

I am under no obligation to justify that choice on here. Although I am politically speaking very far from our good member Balagor here, he and I seem to accord on our attitude towards animal cruelty - we, like a surprising number of our fellow meat eaters, make informed choices and check the origin and welfare standards of our meat/milk/eggs. It isn't just the wealthy that do this, because successful campaigns in the UK have meant that the supply of ethically sourced produce has increased to the extent that it is within reach of the poorer members of the community. I'm unemployed myself, after all. My parents, with whom I live, are pensioners. We will be eating freedom produced beef stew tonight, with enough to make a pie tomorrow. Economic, and healthy.

[arcane20]

You're at it again, trying to dictate what people have to say. I do not have to explain why it is my right to eat meat, any more than you have to explain why you have the right not to.

 

The last I heard, when something is legal but not compulsory, which the slaughtering of animals and their selling for meat is (although it is quite properly heavily regulated), that gives you the rightto choose to do it or not to do it.

 

I am under no obligation to justify that choice on here. Although I am politically speaking very far from our good member Balagor here, he and I seem to accord on our attitude towards animal cruelty - we, like a surprising number of our fellow meat eaters, make informed choices and check the origin and welfare standards of our meat/milk/eggs. It isn't just the wealthy that do this, because successful campaigns in the UK have meant that the supply of ethically sourced produce has increased to the extent that it is within reach of the poorer members of the community. I'm unemployed myself, after all. My parents, with whom I live, are pensioners. We will be eating freedom produced beef stew tonight, with enough to make a pie tomorrow. Economic, and healthy.

I do not have to explain why it is my right to eat meat

You do actually. If you don't then I will assume you can't.

 

any more than you have to explain why you have the right not to.

Not eating meat is the default position. I have a right to my own body and what I do with it. I have the right not to be force fed by others which would be a horrid viiolation of my body and with it my human rights. Your position on the otherhand is not the default position. There is no violation of your body by not eating meat. So you can't equate them as being equally valid.

 

when something is legal but not compulsory

Call me rebellious but the law isn't always right. It has been subject to change and will be subject to change, also which countries laws would you be talking about exactly?

 

make informed choices and check the origin and welfare standards of our meat/milk/eggs.

Good I respect you a little more for doing this but not everyone does; I'd probably bet that most people don't on the basis that if more people were buying freerange produce then the companies who make them will be more inclined to make all produce freerange. Sadly though that is not the case. I still every so often see truckloads of sheep crammed together in uncomfortable spaces on the road and I say that is wrong. Do you agree with that at least?

I'm not sure if this is what you were referring to but pie isn't healthy. The pastry is very unhealthy.

 

I'm not the kind of person to throw blood on someone for eating meat nor am I going to go to a restaraunt and start lecturing people in the middle of their meals but we're in a debate thread here and i'm going to question you in order to win you need to either show my question is flawed or give a reasonable answer.