Everyone is miserable.

[TheMysteriousTraveler]

I'll just fake a sore throat until I get it down.

 

Or if you have a very deep voice (or high voice), just say your going through adult puberty :P

Edited September 6, 2011 by TheMysteriousTraveler

[SansSword]

My problem comes from this: I agree with what you say about all of the characters talking about the crisis and the siege of Kvatch. What I didn't see was any character development, personal conflict, or any overall tone. It was just characters talking, and not doing a very good job at it considering that Oblivion's cast of voice actors was shallow and there was rarely any emotional power put into those lines of dialogue. The characters were relatively flat, and the dialogue / voice acting kept them flat.

 

I don't want them to change the formula of the game at all. I only think that it would be nicer if the main quest, which makes up the "story" of the entire game, was pulled off with a little more conviction.

 

Look, we all can agree that this ain't no Bioware release and probably never will be. Bioware titles as well as many JRPGs of the past were extremely well-written, comprehensive, and believable--they sucked you into the story with excellent dialogue, voice acting, and atmosphere.

 

BUT THIS ISN'T A BIOWARE RELEASE! That kind of writing and story would detract from the amount of freedom that American RPGs tend to focus on. Bethesda made a conscious choice to focus on freedom of movement, choice in questing, opinion in decision-making, all things that are lacking in your traditional RPG, which tend to be extremely linear. Bethesda makes non-linear games.

 

A bit more emotion and enhanced conversational AI from street NPCs would be great; I could see that really drawing you into their world and their concerns. But the question that that raises is how immobile do you make the player while this is happening? How long should a conversation be if you want to hear its entirety? How long is the player meant to wait? Some people would gladly wait to hear background, others want to get on their way ASAP. Bethesda games allow this, a more free-flowing open-world aspect to your standard RPG set. Plus, the main conflict and drama in any Bethesda game has always revolved around the main storyline, the MAIN storyline--everything else is just a time-filler.

 

So summarily, TES games focus more on freedom of action than storytelling. As we all know, TES stories are extremely weak (I posted about this awhile back) and really should be improved for the sake of immersion. Some may mention Bioshock as an example of an excellent first-person experience with an excellent story--but then again, that is a Bioware release so it comes full-circle.

 

But as we all know, Bioshock is also...very linear, not much freedom of action. In my book it's either one or the other. At least, that's what we've seen up to this point. Perhaps in the future the melding of the two successfully will come. And maybe even in a TES game!

[DarkOutlaw49]

My problem comes from this: I agree with what you say about all of the characters talking about the crisis and the siege of Kvatch. What I didn't see was any character development, personal conflict, or any overall tone. It was just characters talking, and not doing a very good job at it considering that Oblivion's cast of voice actors was shallow and there was rarely any emotional power put into those lines of dialogue. The characters were relatively flat, and the dialogue / voice acting kept them flat.

 

I don't want them to change the formula of the game at all. I only think that it would be nicer if the main quest, which makes up the "story" of the entire game, was pulled off with a little more conviction.

 

Look, we all can agree that this ain't no Bioware release and probably never will be. Bioware titles as well as many JRPGs of the past were extremely well-written, comprehensive, and believable--they sucked you into the story with excellent dialogue, voice acting, and atmosphere.

 

BUT THIS ISN'T A BIOWARE RELEASE! That kind of writing and story would detract from the amount of freedom that American RPGs tend to focus on. Bethesda made a conscious choice to focus on freedom of movement, choice in questing, opinion in decision-making, all things that are lacking in your traditional RPG, which tend to be extremely linear. Bethesda makes non-linear games.

 

A bit more emotion and enhanced conversational AI from street NPCs would be great; I could see that really drawing you into their world and their concerns. But the question that that raises is how immobile do you make the player while this is happening? How long should a conversation be if you want to hear its entirety? How long is the player meant to wait? Some people would gladly wait to hear background, others want to get on their way ASAP. Bethesda games allow this, a more free-flowing open-world aspect to your standard RPG set. Plus, the main conflict and drama in any Bethesda game has always revolved around the main storyline, the MAIN storyline--everything else is just a time-filler.

 

So summarily, TES games focus more on freedom of action than storytelling. As we all know, TES stories are extremely weak (I posted about this awhile back) and really should be improved for the sake of immersion. Some may mention Bioshock as an example of an excellent first-person experience with an excellent story--but then again, that is a Bioware release so it comes full-circle.

 

But as we all know, Bioshock is also...very linear, not much freedom of action. In my book it's either one or the other. At least, that's what we've seen up to this point. Perhaps in the future the melding of the two successfully will come. And maybe even in a TES game!

 

This is getting a little off the topic. If you'll go back and re-read what I've been saying, I haven't actually complained about the writing in Oblivion at all. I've never compared their story-crafting abilities to any other studio for one simple reason: I don't feel like their ability to write a story is that bad at all. Only their ability to tell it with emotional conviction.

 

And yes, as I already stated, there is a sliding scale of payoff between immersion and freedom. And, as I also stated, I'm currently perfectly happy with the balance that Bethesda has struck.

 

There are only two things that I have actually critisized Oblivion for: The inability to create or adjust any sort of appopriate tone or atmosphere for a given story, and lackluster NPC dialogue / voice acting performances / character personalization further hampering the game's ability to seem realistic and genuine, or interested enough so that you just "had to see what was next."

 

Neither of those two things relate to making a game free versus linear, so it's perfectly reasonable to hope that they are improved upon in future games. And to clarify even further, I'm not really complaining that much about Oblivion. I only bring it up in terms of Skyrim because this game's setting is drastically more dramatic than Oblivion's initial setting. Wheras that game began in the beautiful, peaceful, prosperous glory days of the Empire in the secure capital province, this game takes place in a world that is currently in the midst of turmoil, war, and cataclysmic, world-shaping events.

 

So, getting back to my original point, I hope that Bethesda makes me feel like that is the current state of the world. As I stated initially, this darker and more challenging setting could be very interesting to explore as long as Bethesda makes it believable.

[Duke Baronknight]

On the predicting future games topic, it's easy to see where the Elder Scrolls is headed after this, let's just consult the Elder Scrolls themselves.

 

Let's see here... Ah! Yes, here it says- MY EYES!

[SansSword]

I don't feel like their ability to write a story is that bad at all. Only their ability to tell it with emotional conviction.

 

There are only two things that I have actually criticized Oblivion for: The inability to create or adjust any sort of appropriate tone or atmosphere for a given story, and lackluster NPC dialogue / voice acting performances / character personalization further hampering the game's ability to seem realistic and genuine, or interested enough so that you just "had to see what was next."

 

I only bring it up in terms of Skyrim because this game's setting is drastically more dramatic than Oblivion's initial setting. Whereas that game began in the beautiful, peaceful, prosperous glory days of the Empire in the secure capital province, this game takes place in a world that is currently in the midst of turmoil, war, and cataclysmic, world-shaping events.

 

I hear you but what we've seen in the past (TES 3 & 4) is a lackluster main story, devoid (in my opinion) of anything worthy of real emotion or excitement which leads DIRECTLY to the team's storytelling skills. If it ain't a good story, no method of telling will make it good, no? Garbage begets garbage, put good in get good out, etc. Basically, when a game has shocking set-piece events in it, that is worthy of attention and note, things that you'll remember. In TES. . .yea, I got nothin. What does stand out to me about TES is the freedom, 'go anywhere, do anything' as the team likes to say. And that really competes head-on with a good story. A type of game where the player can take a break from the main story any time he wishes, well, sort of kills the suspense and/or intrigue.

 

Is it too much to ask for a solid, memorable story in a TES game? I don't know, maybe? What I was saying before was that TES isn't made to focus on quality of the story or even to make it memorable. TES is all about the freedom aspect. While I would love this to be different, I just can't see it being so, at least not yet.

 

As for the NPC speech and conversations, that could always use retouching. While Oblivion was a great step forward, it was horribly awkward and forced most of the time but I see that as simply a stepping stone. It sure was cool to experience NPCs converse like they did in Oblivion (which itself was a big step forward from TES 3) (stalk stalk stalk, 'Good Morning!' stalk stalk stalk).

 

Also, how would a player 'adjust,' in your words, the atmosphere of a particular quest or area? Wouldn't that all be already preset for you? TES is largely a reactionary world, I'd say probably 50/50 with either the player taking initial action or action happening to them.

 

By the way, the Oblivion Crisis, I would argue, was extremely 'world-changing' as it precipitated the downfall of the Empire. May not have felt like it at the time but we historians know otherwise :biggrin: but a world more in flux would be great instead of the happy-go-lucky feel Cyrodiil had.

 

I do think we will get that part, at least.

[Lehcar]

Never! The Mages' Guild didn't deserve to die at all! Some were corrupt yes, but no worse than the Dark Brotherhood or the FG... many of them were incredibly wonderful and intelligent people! Mages are awesome! They didn't deserve to be dissolved!! :(

 

The Empire didn't need to necessarily die either, since the Septims aren't necessary to keep Oblivion away because of Martin's sacrifice, any capable person could rule Tamriel!

Edited September 8, 2011 by Lehcar

[ub3rman123]

I recall in Morrowind that...

 

 

the Fighters' Guild was so corrupt you had to kill almost everyone in it because of their Cammona Tong ties.

 

[natelovesyou]

Never! The Mages' Guild didn't deserve to die at all! Some were corrupt yes, but no worse than the Dark Brotherhood or the FG... many of them were incredibly wonderful and intelligent people! Mages are awesome! They didn't deserve to be dissolved!! :(

 

The Empire didn't need to necessarily die either, since the Septims aren't necessary to keep Oblivion away because of Martin's sacrifice, any capable person could rule Tamriel!

I think you're taking this all way too seriously, I'm sorry but it's just a game. Turn down the drama a little. It's like crying because Bambi's mom dies...get over it. Haha.

[Element115]

I think Bethesda should focus on why would people want to skip dialogue, I mean even on my first play through of the game i skipped quite a bit of dialogue.

[Lowk]

I think Bethesda should focus on why would people want to skip dialogue, I mean even on my first play through of the game i skipped quite a bit of dialogue.

I never skipped any new dialogue in any TES game...maybe it isn't a problem with the game?