Discussing the events of September 11th

[Aurielius]

 

I am not talking about terrorists, I am talking about 'collateral damage', which I am sure you view as necessary. An example: by invading Iraq we invited more terrorism, ruined millions of lives and ruined the country, making it worse than it was before; Al Quaeda was not in Iraq before we invaded, now they are all over in Iraq. Brilliant stuff, I am sure you would agree. Global committments? The moral and constitutional obligations of our representatives in Washington are to protect our liberty, not coddle the world, precipitating no-win wars, whist bringing bankruptcy and economic turmoil to our people. Ultimately you will lose this argument simply because we are broke and don't have the money for it and I doubt even the most war-loving of Americans would choose dropping bombs on civilians abroad over eating their next meal and receiving medical attention. I am talking about collateral damage here and it is massive.

First off you might not want to be so sure about what I think and stick to what I write, if memory serves in past posts I have addressed the issue of collateral damage to civilians and if you check you might see where I stand on that, if not then don't guess. You brought up the Iraq war I didn't, I confined my post to the terrorist that attacked us on 9/11. It seems you want to debate Foreign Policy, fine..create a thread and I'll be there. As for the inference of being a War Lover, that is rather droll since anyone who has ever fought in a war has an abhorrence of war, we might see the necessity at times but that is about as far as it goes. I have fought for my country and am not the least bit ashamed for having done so. It's damn easy to be an arm chair general and talk caustically about collateral civilian deaths, it's slightly different when you are in the cockpit making the snap decisions, so spare me your long distance living room insights.

 

Is your response to our Brazilian friend and what we did to his country as well? The point of this is to stop looking only at our 9/11 and look at Chile's which we helped cause.

If I wanted to respond to him I would have quoted him...

[Keanumoreira]

I don't remember much on that terrible morning. My parents hadn't woken me up to go to school, and curious from both that and the loud noises coming from our T.V. in our living room, I decided to investigate. My mother had her hand over her mouth and I believe my Dad was shaking his head. I can't recall if I was there when I saw the buildings being attacked, but I do remember being there when they fell. I don't care if this Sunday is the tenth anniversary. I'm still going to do what I do every time this day comes and think of those poor people who lost their lives that day. I won't go outside or anything; for me, it's just a time for thinking. I'm just going to respect those 2,000 something lives and hope that their souls can rest easy, even now so that the man responsible is now dead. Anyone can tell me that it's over and that it's past, but I take emotional tragedies like this very seriously, even if I personally didn't lose anything from it. It's not out of Nationalism, or Patriotism, or whatever you want to call it. These were our people, and I believe that they should always remain in my memory. It's always a reminder to me of how cruel this world is and of how our lives could end at any moment. That's something I personally choose to hang onto, and in a way, it makes me happy. It makes me happy because I am lucky to be alive and be with the ones I love and that things could be so much worse. It teaches me to appreciate my life, and I think that's one of the reasons why I honor those lost. :)

 

That's great. It always irks me when people emphasize being proud to be an American with 9/11, as IMO, it's absolutely irrelevant.

 

 

 

M'kay...

[MbDB1211]

Stardusk, aurielius, this is neither the place nor time for it. This topic is for discussing the events of 9/11, and honor those who died on 9/11. Not for debate. PM each other, I don't want to see your argument, and i'm sure others don't want to see it as well.

[Dan3345]

I don't remember much on that terrible morning. My parents hadn't woken me up to go to school, and curious from both that and the loud noises coming from our T.V. in our living room, I decided to investigate. My mother had her hand over her mouth and I believe my Dad was shaking his head. I can't recall if I was there when I saw the buildings being attacked, but I do remember being there when they fell. I don't care if this Sunday is the tenth anniversary. I'm still going to do what I do every time this day comes and think of those poor people who lost their lives that day. I won't go outside or anything; for me, it's just a time for thinking. I'm just going to respect those 2,000 something lives and hope that their souls can rest easy, even now so that the man responsible is now dead. Anyone can tell me that it's over and that it's past, but I take emotional tragedies like this very seriously, even if I personally didn't lose anything from it. It's not out of Nationalism, or Patriotism, or whatever you want to call it. These were our people, and I believe that they should always remain in my memory. It's always a reminder to me of how cruel this world is and of how our lives could end at any moment. That's something I personally choose to hang onto, and in a way, it makes me happy. It makes me happy because I am lucky to be alive and be with the ones I love and that things could be so much worse. It teaches me to appreciate my life, and I think that's one of the reasons why I honor those lost. :)

 

That's great. It always irks me when people emphasize being proud to be an American with 9/11, as IMO, it's absolutely irrelevant.

 

I'm not trying to sound rude or obnoxious, but not feeling any emotions over what happened on that day is likely caused by two things.

 

1. you were young as I was.

 

and

 

2. You did not lose any friends or family.

 

Absolutely. However, you have me wrong: It's not that I don't feel any emotions over what happened, it's that I feel like it's not something to dwell over, and that just because something horrible happened on 9/11 does not mean that the day will mark any sort of special practice for me. That's just how I deal with it, and I don't matter how others do. What does bother me is when people get nationalistic purely for the sake of the day and that message is forced down everybody's throat. It's entirely possible that such a thing is more prevalent in high school, though.

I agree with you.. Its been ten years and while it still sad to think about at times, it is over.

 

Now something that happened this year will stick with me for a lot longer. I don't know about you guys but after 9/11 I saw Osama and Al Queda as the boogeyman. That evil group that had the power to hurt my home. I'm not one to be joyed over the death of anyone, but when he died it was such a pang of relief. Obviously the war is far from over, and in my opinion will never end, but.. Good to know that he's gone. And will suffer in hell (hopefully) for the rest of eternity.

 

I think this war on terror was inevitably going to be a Vietnam repeat. Its a worthy cause, but its not our cause. We should have all our boys and girls at home. Where they belong. We should focus on our own problems. We should fortify our own defenses. It's like what your mom may have told you when you were young. "You can't fix others until you have fixed yourself." And since you can never truly fix yourself, what business do we have policing the world, and who made it up to us?

 

This war is one that cannot be won. The enemy is to elusive, they know the land too well. They blend in with the innocent so perfectly. They take refuge in temples and holy places where we cannot engage. And yet like cowards they fire on us from there, knowing we won't shoot back. Then they spread propaganda to the local populace about how evil America is. The enemy has succeeded in another sense as well. The goal was to instill terror, and show us that we can be damaged. That elsewhere in the world there are people who would love to watch us burn. They would have our freedoms taken away. They couldn't do that themselves. But we can. And we have. Just look at the TSA and Homeland Security. The one hundred new branches of the government created for sole purposes of monitoring the American land. Benjamin Franklin said "He who is willing to give up freedom for security, deserves neither."

 

So if you remember one thing on this ten year anniversary of 9/11. Remember that on this day 3500 people died, people from America, and all over the world, remember that somewhere in the middle east there are men handing out candy and burning yours and my flag.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Dan3345

[Aurielius]

Stardusk, aurielius, this is neither the place nor time for it. This topic is for discussing the events of 9/11, and honor those who died on 9/11. Not for debate. PM each other, I don't want to see your argument, and i'm sure others don't want to see it as well.

Fair enough...debate over.

[ginnyfizz]

It is disturbing to think what the USA still has on its' own soil, new article I picked up just now;-

 

Minneapolis a breeding ground for terrorists

 

That, by the way, is Yahoo news' title, not mine.

 

That's why I feel Dan3345 makes a lot of good points. Now that Osama is gone, take a look at what is closer to home, that article seems to suggest a need to.

[cancausecancer]

Here is a CGI fly thru of the memorial at ground zero:

 

I assume the two square holes in the ground at the memorial are where the towers sat. If it wasn't for that representation I wouldn't like the memorial's design at all.

 

I'd like to see it much larger and with more cow bell. I haven't made my pilgrimage there yet so I don't know if I'll think it's great in person.

[Revengeance]

I had a meeting in Tower One that was scheduled for 9am that morning which was canceled the night beforehand, so I had the good fortune of watching it on TV instead of in person.

That's sort of like Seth MacFarlane's story. He was actually going to be on one of the planes that crashed into one of the towers, but he was late to the airport and couldn't catch his flight.

[antonkr]

Here is a CGI fly thru of the memorial at ground zero:

 

I assume the two square holes in the ground at the memorial are where the towers sat. If it wasn't for that representation I wouldn't like the memorial's design at all.

 

I'd like to see it much larger and with more cow bell. I haven't made my pilgrimage there yet so I don't know if I'll think it's great in person.

Been there couple of month back. Its under constructions. Not much to see there yet

[Ogramirad]

I was 41 then, and in the Navy 17 years at that time, that entire month was and Still Is, A Very Bad one for me.

 

My Grandfather (Mothers side), my last remaining Grandparent, died on September 7th, my Dad died of a sudden heart attack on September 14, and for all intents and purposes I was separated by the end of that month.

 

With a final divorce the next August, when I got back from deployment, with the John F. Kennedy Battle Group.

 

That morning I was an STG1(SW) (that is a Surface Sonar Technician) and the Officer of the Deck on the USS Hue City CG-66, an Aegis Cruiser, tied to the pier at Jacksonville Florida, I had the 4am to 8am watch.

 

My watch team was responsible for getting the ship under way that morning as we were doing an inspection cycle and had to do a simulated battle problem out to sea, which if we passed, would have passed us for that inspection.

 

Myself the OOD and my watch team which consisted of a Petty Officer of The Watch and a Messenger of The Watch had secured our station at the Starboard Quarterdeck and turned over everything to the the Bridge to get the ship under way from the pier.

 

I think it was close to or a bit after 8am when we left the pier with our full crew and the inspection team on board.

 

We had left the pier and was heading out to the first buoy, when rumors of something had happened in New York began to flash around the inside of the ship.

 

It was not a few minutes after that the Captain from the inspection team got on the 1MC (Ships Announcing circuit), and told us that we had passed the inspection in light of what had happened in New York.

 

He said that we had been doing a great job on everything leading up to the battle problem and that he knew we would have passed that with flying colors any way and that the ship had better and more pressing things to do than to go do that battle problem.

 

And that we were going to drop the inspection team off on a tug boat at the first buoy and head North to the Virginia Capes area to start steaming in a box to provide air cover to that section of the coast line in case of further attack.

 

And to monitor any other aircraft traffic, and when eventually all aircraft were grounded to catch any others that might be ignoring that order.

 

Which is described very well, on this USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) webpage:

 

"When terrorists attacked the United States on September 11, 2001, USS John F. Kennedy took up Operation Noble Eagle duty, establishing air security over American cities along the mid-Atlantic coast, including Washington, D.C."

 

All ships that could get under way from Jacksonville that morning did so, and we were all part of the John F. Kennedy Battle Group.

 

So we dropped of the inspection team off and made flank speed to our assigned area off the coast of Virginia, it didn't take long for us to get there.

 

Like I said before my Grandfather passed on the 7th and I was not notified (that is another story for the reasons why), my Dad died on the 14th, the ship was on station by then when the Red Cross message with both of them on the same message came that they both had died.

 

So I was flown off the ship to attend the funeral, and I made it from that ship to Denver, Colorado in less that 24 hours, total luck, if you want to call it that, I am sure it was something else.

 

I was able to go from my ship on a helo to the carrier, USS John F. Kennedy, I walked from that helo to a mail plane launched from the carrier flew to Naval Air Station Oceana, got off that plane walked to another one that flew me to Peterson Field in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

 

Got a rental car and was at my Dad's house at just after sundown.

 

I got back to the ship 2 weeks later, I think it was and met them back in Jacksonville on the pier.

 

And as I already said about combined with being separated by the end of the month, it is the most Devastating Month Of Memories of my life, I lost my Grandfather, my Dad, my family, and the country lost any last remaining part of it's innocence.