Making My Mod Less Exploitable

[DeadMansFist849]

If you are trying to make something uncheatable, I think you won't get far, because people will always find ways around things. As myrmaad said, it's fairly easy to see and remove dirty edits if you have a tool like TES4Edit, and besides, deliberately trying to make it so that people will have broken games if they edit your mod is malicious.

[throttlekitty]

I'm reminded of Magical Trinkets of Tamriel for Morrowind. He used some funky bitshift-ish scripts that were a little harder to follow than your average script. In his case, he had a couple of numbers that many things relied on, and had these lengthy script stages that would constantly adjust that number, and it worked quite well.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Look at PuceMoose's mods if you have FO3. I tried to cheat the hell out of his puzzles and couldn't figure anything out the way he had it set up in the geck. If security through obscurity is what you're going for, he's the Microsoft of it.

[Ranokoa]

Quetz, thank you for the info and staying on topic.

 

BB2: There will be nothing malicious in my game. This is an edit after I read your post, although the below text answers your worry you were not in mind when I wrote it, so don't take any agitated attitude as if it were towards you.

 

Okay, it looks as if I am going to unfortunately give more detail about my mod. I wouldn't necessarily call it "dirty edit" as each thing WILL serve a very good purpose.

 

I will still be vague about my mod, because I really really don't want to give much away. But, before I continue, I am going to PLEASE ask people to stop pretending as if they know everything about my mod, what it will entail and what that will require. Input it always good, even if it isn't for what I want, but please stop pretending that every detail about my mod is out there and you know for a fact what is and what isn't required.

 

My mod will be a minigame. Yes. One of the main things about it, pretty much the only "Interactivity" I can make in it, is the Screenshot postings of your score once you are done to show others how far you got. I would encourage people to screenshot them and then upload them to the mod page for all to see how far they got. THIS is the reason I need anti-cheat measurements. I mean, I would have already put in one or two things so they can't cheat INSIDE the game, but if it wasn't going to also possibly affect others in their cheating then I'd leave the CS alone in that terms.

 

Now I am going to rererererererererererererepoint out something from post 32, and throughout the entire thread.

 

1: This mod is NOT to be used at the same time as ANY other mod.

2: THAT Should give enough a clue if I hadn't already stated it, that it will require a CLEAN save. Meaning an abandonable one. One you couldn't care less about.

3: Any "broken" things in-game will absolutely be "repairable" by disabling my mod.

4: Please don't tell me how to mod. Suggestions, opinions, opposition, sure. Don't tell me how to spend my time that I don't have to on something you don't have to download.

5: This is NOT going to be an ordinary mod.

 

I'm NOT going to create a giant amount of bugs and errors on purpose to make it uneditable, uncheatable or whatever. I'm NOT ganna make bugs!

This will not break your game.

It will be exceedingly easy for me to find out where what problems are if they occur. I won't mention how, that's for me to know, and cheaters to spend all day trying to figure out. The scripts and all that lovely stuff that is there as a deception will DO NOTHING NO MATTER WHAT. No matter what changes anyone makes to them they will absolutely have no affect in-game.

When using my mod, you will NEVER be allowed outside the interior confines of that which comprises my mod.

Every single thing, such as the anti-cheat measurements, will be explained and won't be easy to miss for people who might download my mod, or are there just to take a look at the description. It will be in a giant disclaimer part saying, "Don't comment before reading me" or whatever.

 

I appreciate your worry, I appreciate your comments and suggestions, but don't worry, your fears are not going to come true in my mod. I really wish I could clarify this to exactness, but I am being protective of my mod's concept until it's finished. I will worry about what shows up or how easy it may be for people to spot this and that myself, as it is my problem to worry about.

 

And I will say this no more than this:

NOTHING I AM DOING TO PREVENT CHEATERS WILL BE NOTICEABLE AT ALL TO THOSE WHO AREN'T CHEATING!

 

I will playtest my mod out of every error there is before releasing it. I will exit Oblivion before uploading, not the CS. BECAUSE this mod is NOT to be used with any other mod enabled at the same time, there shouldn't even BE any "conflicts" to death with or worry about. I could delete every piece of silverware and no one would be the wiser, because when using my mod you CAN'T GET OUT of its interior cells. For good reason. Again, NOT an ordinary mod.

 

I will point out the fact in the description that pretty much every important detail and those that aren't important regarding this mod and its creation. Frown upon me if you want to, I am making the SAFE mod that I want to make because I want to make it. If you don't like it, don't download it, and don't tell me how to spend my time. Nothing I am going to do in my mod will compromise anyone's anything BECAUSE of the nature of the mod!

 

1: Create a new save, because other saves will be denied from working in my mod anyways through skill-checks. FOR GOOD REASON.

2: Don't enable any other mods. There will be a warning RIGHT at the beginning about this so no one forgets.

3: You can undo anything my mod did with a simple double-click on a data-window.

4: PLEASE GET BACK ON TOPIC

 

I hope now anyone's word against this will actually be relevant, and no repeats about things that aren't even an issue. You're either going to have to just trust me when I say you don't have the foggiest what I'm even making, or I'm going to have to ask you not to comment. Either take that to heart, and everything I've said already, or please don't post.

 

Also, for those unaware, you really SHOULD read all comments page 2 and after before posting.

 

Besides, I'm not even sure if I'm going to be uploading my mod here. While it would be ideal for the score screenshotting purpose, I have my reservations. So you not only don't have to download it, you might not even be able to!

 

Back on topic now?

Edited September 13, 2011 by Ranokoa

[throttlekitty]

Yeah, get back on topic.

[Ranokoa]

Thank you Throttle. I am far too sober for all this. >_<

 

I was also thinking of scripting my mod in a way that would check for alterations, but not change them back. That'd be the other thing. What this would do is once it sees an alteration, it will give your score in a slightly different way that would be easy for me to see that the person had cheated, so I could simply take their SS off the scoreboard. That way if they somehow circumvent all my preventions, at least I'd be able to see that they did IF they were to try and post their cheating score, so that it's still fair for everyone else who wants their score shown.

[Pronam]

The scripts and all that lovely stuff that is there as a deception will DO NOTHING NO MATTER WHAT

What a few have mentioned before is that they warn about the side-effects this can have. Making fake code to mask other code is a possibility yes, but to do that properly you’d have to merge that with the original code. This means your code gets complexer and more prone to mistakes and bugs because your fake code might be affecting the regular code. This means you’ll need more time that you could have spend on adding more features.

 

Don't comment before reading me"

Even if it’s written in a blinking star front people seem to miss it and they will comment regardless of that >.>

 

~Not enabling any mods//New saves~

I can understand that from the viewpoint of no cheating, but I highly doubt anyone will do this. I think that by forcing players into a corner like this they’d be reluctant to try it out. People will have to go through the whole tutorial part again just to play your mod.

 

Besides, I'm not even sure if I'm going to be uploading my mod here. While it would be ideal for the score screenshotting purpose, I have my reservations. So you not only don't have to download it, you might not even be able to!

Rano, you know me for 2 years, you know me and I know you.. So I can say this. What the hell are you trying to achieve? I know your motivation for modding and I know that releasing the mod isn’t a required part to enjoy the thing we love most...creating the mod itself. Your topic here is a genuine question that can be asked and it will be genuinely frowned upon by most as it’s practically wasting time in someone eyes. Understand there are more sides you can approach to a subject like this and that as you’re entitled to your opinion, so are others. Single focused optimal subjects don’t exist. You must have noticed this concerning the chat, subjects in the past, events in the past and the wordings you’re using. You’re missing out that you’re burning the bridges you are trying to cross.

 

I will still be vague about my mod, because I really really don't want to give much away. But, before I continue, I am going to PLEASE ask people to stop pretending as if they know everything about my mod, what it will entail and what that will require. Input it always good, even if it isn't for what I want, but please stop pretending that every detail about my mod is out there and you know for a fact what is and what isn't required.

Your mod is directly accessible in a sense that once you share it everyone will be able to view it and gain, use and improve on its foundation or concept. Mods consists of multiple parts, where the concept and foundation are one of the primary ones. The foundation (of the idea, iif you wish) is what people use to fit to their own concept and you’ve already told the foundation. It’s basically packed up and ready to ‘steal’ .already. So stop worrying about that, it’s too late! Most people don’t bother about the concept as it’s usually to personally focused and not usable for their end.

 

Yes, the topic is fairly doable yet :), but do expect more sarcasm of other users if you’re not letting out details that are important to the matter at hand and pointing at them they won't understand...then don't expect them to yet they are allowed to talk about it like anyone else is. In general people don’t care about spoilers in here, seriously :P. They know the game inside-out and are probably too busy modding on their own end and often don’t have time to try out others. The last thing any modder would do here is go spoil it to others outside this forum :facepalm:. I get that you don't want to share your idea but please understand that others won't understand you, can't help you form a better judgement if this is all necessary and will definitely use the limited information to provide their judgement on the matter.

 

This forum is more based on the fact you'll learn something with a larger value and without he limitations of the other forums. Regardless of the secret evil attempts and purposes members have in the back of their minds, all they do right here is trying to help you. Don't try so hard to piss them off :thumbsup:, I know it's a sport of some to piss each other off.. but what's been said here isn’t targeted at that. Walk across that bridge and you’ll get where most don’t get, genuinely accepting feedback even if you don’t use it.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Pronam

[Ranokoa]

Pronam, in one word to summarize what is agitating me, I would say, "Repetition." Not talking about your post! Don't get wrong, lol. It's just that it seems the only problem people are having are the very same thing, and I end up explaining myself a million times on the very same thing, wording things just a little differently. On the other points, however, I completely see what you mean. While I may not agree with absolutely every point, I did take every word to heart. I'll be honest though, I'm going to have to reread it later, because I won't remember a single word in a couple minutes. I'm quite out of my mind inebriated right now, and everything feels just great. Juuuuuust great.

 

While part of my protectiveness is ensuring that no one steals my concept, it is not really a big part. Aside from having time-stamp proof of concept, the absolute rest is because I enjoy the "unveiling" of my big mods. If people already have a 3d map of every aspect before it's unveiled, then it's not really an unveiling. I can't think of other ways to say it right now.

 

Okay my attention span just got shot as soon as my show came on. I'm going to have to respond later because I can't remember what I was saying.

[RGMage2]

...too busy modding on their own end and often don't have time to try out others.

 

Very true, but this is starting to sound interesting, like I'd like to try it once it's done :smile: .

 

I can't really suggest too much, but I've always liked the idea of hiding things in plain sight. Maybe a decoy script that would have everything in it and a script name that just jumps out at people and says "here it is this is what you're looking for". So they waste their time editing that script but the script never gets called and the edits have no effect. It might fool a few people. Probably not anyone in here though.:cool:

[Ranokoa]

That's already been said, but thank you RG. Please do read the OP before posting though, it will enlighten you on what's been suggested already.

 

Also, I'm not going to do that to every single script. Just the important few that control the essential things that I don't want changed, that could make the player invulnerable or such. The deception scripts will actually change something in themselves and all, but what they affect won't be relevant or noticeable. But they do need to exist so that things don't get mixed around or what-not, but they can be stored in a warehouse or something out of sight.

 

I think I need to clarify this though. While I do want deception and trickery in that sorts so it is harder to exploit my mod, I'm not saying my entire mod is going to be indecipherable and a giant maze of things that do and don't affect things. Only the essential things will be hidden. Most everything else will be visible because changing those things won't give the player an advantage, it'll just break the mod from working right.