What the - happened?

[draconix]

What's caused the somewhat rapid downhill snowball formerly known as the debate forums?

 

My bad. :ohdear:

 

I agree with Marharth, and I too am not entirely innocent. Sometimes it's easy for things to heat up when debating. I had to remove myself from this section for a while.

[RZ1029]

Most of us are intelligent adults...why should Dark0ne and the Mods mind us like little children?

Hmmm, that one I think I can answer, and I personally feel pertains well to the topic, as it directly relates to why many threads are being locked, and causing a general decline of the forums.

 

I think that Dark0ne and Co. have the right to do so, but not so much the responsibility, as I suspect they have fairly tight standards they would like to hold the forum up to, and make it something worth coming to and joining. If the first thing someone sees is a 'Debates' section full of bickering and immaturity (not that I feel this is the case, just that it would be possible if not moderated), it might turn them off to the site as a whole. I know it would do that to me.

 

Otherwise, continue, I'm thoroughly interested to see what others have to say.

 

Also, nobody should be taking blame for the decline, as it takes two to get in a pissing match.

[Flintlockecole]

Everything, even the most well built things fall apart.

[bben46]

While I would like to be able to say we are all intelligent responsible adults here, the evidence just does not support that. Too many people see the TV debates between politicians and think that is what debates are supposed to be like. :rolleyes: and emulate that style.

I long ago lost count of the ad Hominem and straw man arguments that are so popular with politicians.

 

To me a debate is where you stay on topic and back up any comment with reason, not "because I say so!" with no actual support - as is seen too often.

 

I long ago posted a pinned topic on debate rules that some 'debaters' seem to have skipped before offering their opinions. If you are interested: http://www.thenexusf...es-for-debates/ There are other good suggestions for debating in that thread.

 

If you have never been exposed to logical fallacies in debating, here is a good article. :thumbsup: http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html

[Nintii]

This is one of those deals, again, where everyone has a point of view, and they will all differ to some extent.

 

Okay, what I have found is ... too much about "winning no matter what" ..... again, I could be wrong, but it often seem as though there is a small group that tends to lead us off topic more than others.

 

I do agree whole heartedly with LisnPuppy when she says that we are intelligent adults here .... I just leave a thread when it becomes out of control or ridiculous. This is unfortunate, however, as sometimes they are threads that interest me; but have been taken over by posters who post within posts, within posts, within posts, etc., making it impossible to follow and extremely irritating.

 

 

(sorry for editing your post Grannywils, but I agree wholeheartedly with your points above)

 

At one stage I used to add my point of view to a topic and then leave it at that and not bother if it was shot down in flames ... unfortunately, I got bitten by the bug and went off the deep end a few times (sometimes not even bothering with reading

the whole post before replying) and at times even began getting personal ... my apologies to those I offended.

The points that Grannywils has made above say it all ... and if you don't mind Grannywils I'd like to use you in an illustration here for a bit.

 

Grannywils and I definitely don't always see eye to eye but she still has my deepest respect and I consider her to be way more intelligent than I am, and even though we disagree with one another, and that happens often, that doesn't mean that I have to

constantly question or reply to everything she says that I don't agree with, as is unfortunately becoming the norm here.

She has the right to her opinion and I need to respect that, and vice versa, but are we (all) really doing that, no, we are not ... we want victory and sometimes at any cost.

 

Perhaps, if we backed up what we were saying with facts to bolster our position that might sway the opposition, as bben46 says;

 

"To me a debate is where you stay on topic and back up any comment with reason, not "because I say so!" with no actual support - as is seen too often.

 

So true ...

 

So yes, what was once fun is now like pulling teeth.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Nintii

[HeyYou]

This is one of those deals, again, where everyone has a point of view, and they will all differ to some extent.

 

Okay, what I have found is ... too much about "winning no matter what" ..... again, I could be wrong, but it often seem as though there is a small group that tends to lead us off topic more than others.

 

I do agree whole heartedly with LisnPuppy when she says that we are intelligent adults here .... I just leave a thread when it becomes out of control or ridiculous. This is unfortunate, however, as sometimes they are threads that interest me; but have been taken over by posters who post within posts, within posts, within posts, etc., making it impossible to follow and extremely irritating.

 

 

(sorry for editing your post Grannywils, but I agree wholeheartedly with your points above)

 

At one stage I used to add my point of view to a topic and then leave it at that and not bother if it was shot down in flames ... unfortunately, I got bitten by the bug and went off the deep end a few times (sometimes not even bothering with reading

the whole post before replying) and at times even began getting personal ... my apologies to those I offended.

The points that Grannywils has made above say it all ... and if you don't mind Grannywils I'd like to use you in an illustration here for a bit.

 

Grannywils and I definitely don't always see eye to eye but she still has my deepest respect and I consider her to be way more intelligent than I am, and even though we disagree with one another, and that happens often, that doesn't mean that I have to

constantly question or reply to everything she says that I don't agree with, as is unfortunately becoming the norm here.

She has the right to her opinion and I need to respect that, and vice versa, but are we (all) really doing that, no, we are not ... we want victory and sometimes at any cost.

 

Perhaps, if we backed up what we were saying with facts to bolster our position that might sway the opposition, as bben46 says;

 

"To me a debate is where you stay on topic and back up any comment with reason, not "because I say so!" with no actual support - as is seen too often.

 

So true ...

 

So yes, what was once fun is now like pulling teeth.

 

I still have a few more teeth. :D Come join the party.

[Kendo 2]

I wonder if anyone realizes how self-serving this thread is? Being a jerk in another debate thread and then posting in this one to ease a guilty conscience or get absolution for past sins is a joke. If people were sincere about debating, they wouldn't be jacking around and breaking the rules in the first place.

[Lisnpuppy]

Most of us are intelligent adults...why should Dark0ne and the Mods mind us like little children?

Hmmm, that one I think I can answer, and I personally feel pertains well to the topic, as it directly relates to why many threads are being locked, and causing a general decline of the forums.

 

I think that Dark0ne and Co. have the right to do so, but not so much the responsibility, as I suspect they have fairly tight standards they would like to hold the forum up to, and make it something worth coming to and joining. If the first thing someone sees is a 'Debates' section full of bickering and immaturity (not that I feel this is the case, just that it would be possible if not moderated), it might turn them off to the site as a whole. I know it would do that to me.

 

Otherwise, continue, I'm thoroughly interested to see what others have to say.

 

Also, nobody should be taking blame for the decline, as it takes two to get in a pissing match.

 

I never said they didn't have a right to do so....but why should they. They have far more important things to do that mind a bunch of folks that can't keep it on the straight and narrow. Dark One I personally believe expects us to be able to abstain from too much stupid and when we don't that is when we go. Having a special rules strike system for this section alone is redundant and in my mind...giving the people who can not act like adults the permission to keep not acting like they have any sense.

 

And I am sorry I didn't read past this post and probably won't again. :turned:

[Nintii]

I wonder if anyone realizes how self-serving this thread is? Being a jerk in another debate thread and then posting in this one to ease a guilty conscience or get absolution for past sins is a joke. If people were sincere about debating, they wouldn't be jacking around and breaking the rules in the first place.

 

Well sorry for living, maybe you live in some perfect world where you never make mistakes and because of it you never feel the need to make right ... so if that's the case then I reckon that all here that tried to apologise for being "jerks"

should apologise again for being human.

 

This Debate forum needed this so that we could clear the air and all have a good talk to ourselves and try to get back on track, and try to make right with each other where we have gone wrong, which is what many of us needed.

So yes, it pretty much is self-serving as you put it, but for many here we certainly needed to "ease our conscience and gain absolution from our past sins", everyone needs to bow at the altar of introspection and honesty sometime ...

can you say amen or is it ouch ?

[Kendo 2]

Well sorry for living, maybe you live in some perfect world where you never make mistakes and because of it you never feel the need to make right ... so if that's the case then I reckon that all here that tried to apologise for being "jerks"

should apologise again for being human.

 

Maybe an apology IS in order. I make mistakes and I apologize when I do. One thing I don't do is make it a public charade.

 

This Debate forum needed this so that we could clear the air and all have a good talk to ourselves and try to get back on track, and try to make right with each other where we have gone wrong, which is what many of us needed.

 

You mean like the flame baiting in this post I'm quoting? If so, you're off to an excellent start, since attacking the messenger and not the message is why the debates have turned into a monkey sh*t show. So much for getting 'back on track'.

 

So yes, it pretty much is self-serving as you put it, but for many here we certainly needed to "ease our conscience and gain absolution from our past sins", everyone needs to bow at the altar of introspection and honesty sometime ...

can you say amen or is it ouch ?

 

I wouldn't say amen or ouch. I would say 'Then you should get to it because right now your own words are condemning you.'

 

And I really don't care one way or another what happens to the Debate threads. The whole section could be flushed down the bog and Nexus would live on as if nothing had happened. I DID participate at one time. I posted with clarity and verifiable facts. My reward for being an able and competent participant was being attacked personally. Seems that if a person's argument can't be shot down with the counter-point facts or the truth, it is okay to attack them personally just to shut them up.

 

can you say amen or is it ouch ?

 

Proves my point.

 

*walks off, happily abandoning them to their fates*