Should people without health insurance, etc. be allowed to die?

[Quetzlsacatanango]

What is the difference between a citizen and an illegal immigrant that makes one deserve other peoples' money and one not?

[HeyYou]

What is the difference between a citizen and an illegal immigrant that makes one deserve other peoples' money and one not?

 

The whole "illegal" part. I don't have a problem assisting folks that are here in the country legally, I DO have a problem with criminals exploiting the system. They pay no taxes, a goodly percentage of their income goes back to their country of origin..... they are a drain on our society, and we need to fix that.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

So deadbeat citizens do deserve other peoples' money?

 

By the way, undocumented residents would be paying taxes if we went to a sales tax :)

[PowderdToastMan]

What is the difference between a citizen and an illegal immigrant that makes one deserve other peoples' money and one not?

 

In my opinion, no one deserves someone elses money. Doesnt matter who they are

[PowderdToastMan]

@ hey you

 

Its not the government saving money by not spending it on illegals, its the insurance companies that would save.

 

with the exception of the wic clinics which are govt run

[HeyYou]

So deadbeat citizens do deserve other peoples' money?

 

By the way, undocumented residents would be paying taxes if we went to a sales tax :)

 

 

They buy food. Which isn't taxed. They buy gasoline, which also doesn't get sales taxed. I have no desire to bump the price of everything else by 20% or more. That would kill the economy. Also, not everyone is uninsured by choice, nor are they unemployed by choice. To assume they are all deadbeats, is invalid. I will certainly grant that there ARE some deadbeats out there, but, they are the exception, rather than the rule.

 

 

What is the difference between a citizen and an illegal immigrant that makes one deserve other peoples' money and one not?

 

In my opinion, no one deserves someone elses money. Doesnt matter who they are

 

So you don't believe you should pay any taxes at all?

@ hey you

 

Its not the government saving money by not spending it on illegals, its the insurance companies that would save.

 

with the exception of the wic clinics which are govt run

 

Illegal aliens have insurance? Really? Wow, that is news to me. And just who is it that pays for things like Medicare? Medicaid? You know, the 'insurance programs' for the poor, the ones that illegals take part in by the millions? Hint: The government. (via your tax dollars)

Edited September 15, 2011 by HeyYou

[Quetzlsacatanango]

So deadbeat citizens do deserve other peoples' money?

 

By the way, undocumented residents would be paying taxes if we went to a sales tax :)

 

 

They buy food. Which isn't taxed. They buy gasoline, which also doesn't get sales taxed. I have no desire to bump the price of everything else by 20% or more. That would kill the economy. Also, not everyone is uninsured by choice, nor are they unemployed by choice. To assume they are all deadbeats, is invalid. I will certainly grant that there ARE some deadbeats out there, but, they are the exception, rather than the rule.

The point is not what does or does not get taxed today (though gas certainly does, and some food does). The point is that you could arrange things so that immigrants pay more taxes, and immigrants surely buy more than just food and gas. But I guess that would cut the legs out from under your anti-illegal immigrant stance and you will have one less thing to blame for the evils in the world. Seems to me you are just scapegoating immigrants without much to base it on.

Healthcare costs and illegal immigration are two completely different issues that unfortunately exacerbate each other so they get lumped together. One could be solved without solving the other if there was a will for it.

 

And you also cleverly declined to say whether citizen deadbeats have the right to other peoples' money.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Quetzlsacatanango

[LadyMilla]

Just dug up these articles, they might be interesting in the debate:

 

Why does American health care cost so much?

 

Why does US health care cost so much?

 

Do doctors' salaries drive up health care costs?

 

In fact, if you search the site for these keywords, a lot of interesting articles will pop up:

 

Query New York Times: Why US health care costs so much?

 

Another study:

 

U.S. Health Care costs

 

Something that is noteworthy and reduces the effectiveness of attempts at controlling health care costs:

 

Influencing Doctors

 

As you can see, there is a lot more to it than simply the issue of illegal immigrants (I'm not saying that illegal immigration is not a problem, just not the ONLY problem).

 

Apparently, a lot of expenses could be saved, and that money could be spent to extend health care without increasing tax burden.

 

 

[HeyYou]

So deadbeat citizens do deserve other peoples' money?

 

By the way, undocumented residents would be paying taxes if we went to a sales tax :)

 

 

They buy food. Which isn't taxed. They buy gasoline, which also doesn't get sales taxed. I have no desire to bump the price of everything else by 20% or more. That would kill the economy. Also, not everyone is uninsured by choice, nor are they unemployed by choice. To assume they are all deadbeats, is invalid. I will certainly grant that there ARE some deadbeats out there, but, they are the exception, rather than the rule.

The point is not what does or does not get taxed today (though gas certainly does, and some food does). The point is that you could arrange things so that immigrants pay more taxes, and immigrants surely buy more than just food and gas. But I guess that would cut the legs out from under your anti-illegal immigrant stance and you will have one less thing to blame for the evils in the world. Seems to me you are just scapegoating immigrants without much to base it on.

Healthcare costs and illegal immigration are two completely different issues that unfortunately exacerbate each other so they get lumped together. One could be solved without solving the other if there was a will for it.

 

And you also cleverly declined to say whether citizen deadbeats have the right to other peoples' money.

 

First, you are running under the premise that I agree that it is even your money to begin with. Once the government takes it in taxes, it isn't yours any more. Otherwise, there are a great number of things that would not have happened, should the folks whose money it is (in your view) were left a choice in the matter of where it is spent. I do NOT agree with that stance. The government spends money how the government sees fit. (and that lends problems all its own..... topic for another thread though)

 

Second, illegals are indeed only part of the problem in health care, here's an article on what your tax dollars are going for, to have them in country.

 

How do you propose to identify the 'deadbeats'? That sounds a lot more like welfare reform to me. (which is something else that really needs to happen.....)

 

Just dug up these articles, they might be interesting in the debate:

 

Why does American health care cost so much?

 

Why does US health care cost so much?

 

Do doctors' salaries drive up health care costs?

 

In fact, if you search the site for these keywords, a lot of interesting articles will pop up:

 

Query New York Times: Why US health care costs so much?

 

Another study:

 

U.S. Health Care costs

 

Something that is noteworthy and reduces the effectiveness of attempts at controlling health care costs:

 

Influencing Doctors

 

As you can see, there is a lot more to it than simply the issue of illegal immigrants (I'm not saying that illegal immigration is not a problem, just not the ONLY problem).

 

Apparently, a lot of expenses could be saved, and that money could be spent to extend health care without increasing tax burden.

 

 

 

Thank you, some very enlighten articles there. The problem is indeed multi-faceted, and we are addressing only a few of them here.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

So deadbeat citizens do deserve other peoples' money?

 

By the way, undocumented residents would be paying taxes if we went to a sales tax :)

 

 

They buy food. Which isn't taxed. They buy gasoline, which also doesn't get sales taxed. I have no desire to bump the price of everything else by 20% or more. That would kill the economy. Also, not everyone is uninsured by choice, nor are they unemployed by choice. To assume they are all deadbeats, is invalid. I will certainly grant that there ARE some deadbeats out there, but, they are the exception, rather than the rule.

The point is not what does or does not get taxed today (though gas certainly does, and some food does). The point is that you could arrange things so that immigrants pay more taxes, and immigrants surely buy more than just food and gas. But I guess that would cut the legs out from under your anti-illegal immigrant stance and you will have one less thing to blame for the evils in the world. Seems to me you are just scapegoating immigrants without much to base it on.

Healthcare costs and illegal immigration are two completely different issues that unfortunately exacerbate each other so they get lumped together. One could be solved without solving the other if there was a will for it.

 

And you also cleverly declined to say whether citizen deadbeats have the right to other peoples' money.

 

First, you are running under the premise that I agree that it is even your money to begin with. Once the government takes it in taxes, it isn't yours any more.

Exactly! Once it has been stolen it is no longer yours! That is the definition of stolen.

 

Otherwise, there are a great number of things that would not have happened, should the folks whose money it is (in your view) were left a choice in the matter of where it is spent. I do NOT agree with that stance. The government spends money how the government sees fit. (and that lends problems all its own..... topic for another thread though)

Again, I am not talking about how it is spent. I am talking about how it is attained!

 

How do you propose to identify the 'deadbeats'? That sounds a lot more like welfare reform to me. (which is something else that really needs to happen.....)

Someone who leeches off the hard work of others is a good definition.

Taking my money to give healthcare or anything else to someone who can't afford it is a good if imperfect example.