What are people entitled to?

[Balagor]

in america, we are entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

 

but worldwide, unless your on top, your only entitled to what those who are on top say you are entitled to. it sucks, but its the truth.

in america, we are entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

 

but worldwide outside the western world, unless your on top, your only entitled to what those who are on top say you are entitled to. it sucks, but its the truth.

[marharth]

:wallbash: If we accept that argument, we might as well all roll over and give up even trying to fight overbearing Government, since we would be accepting they can do whatever the heck they like and we have no cause or reason to fight them.

 

As Aurelius says, the ballot box, the jury box and in the last resort, the cartridge box. Even in laid back Britain we went so far as to cut off one King's head (and later boot his younger son out)due to his interference with what were perceived to be natural rights. Actually it was pretty ironic how the English Civil War was sparked by an instance of taxation without representation, just as the American Revolution later was.

You should recognize morals and act based on that. Are you saying that we are born with these rights? We are born with the morals to decide what rights should be, we are not born with rights.

 

The rights you have are not given to you on birth, they are decided by man. If they are not decided by man, where do you think they come from?

 

To make this simple.

 

1. You have a moral set, you are born with some morals that can also be influenced by the environment.

 

2. With your moral set, you vote for people who you think match your moral set.

 

3. The people who you vote for decide your rights.

 

or in the case of America.

 

1. You have a moral set, you revolt against another country.

 

2. You write down rights that are based around your moral sets, that become law.

[Jopo1980]

Everyone should be entitled to:

 

1. Health care

2. Minimum income

3. Housing

4. Right to decide over their life, including whether it should end. (right to suicide)

5. Basic human rights

6. Legal assistance if needed

7. Free speech

8. Civil liberties.

9. Right of return to their native land (authorities cannot block you from entering your own country, as in Finland)

10. Preferential treatment in buying land in their native land. (if a Russian wants to buy a land plot that I´m looking at in Finland, I should have the preferential right to buy it. Åland islanders, an autonomous province of Finland, have this right)

 

etc. etc.

[HeyYou]

Everyone should be entitled to:

 

1. Health care

2. Minimum income

3. Housing

4. Right to decide over their life, including whether it should end. (right to suicide)

5. Basic human rights

6. Legal assistance if needed

7. Free speech

8. Civil liberties.

9. Right of return to their native land (authorities cannot block you from entering your own country, as in Finland)

10. Preferential treatment in buying land in their native land. (if a Russian wants to buy a land plot that I´m looking at in Finland, I should have the preferential right to buy it. Åland islanders, an autonomous province of Finland, have this right)

 

etc. etc.

 

How doe you propose to pay for the first 3, and 6?

[Jopo1980]

Taxes, as they do in Finland.

[HeyYou]

Taxes, as they do in Finland.

 

And how is that working out for you? What is your current tax rate?

 

The republicans would NEVER let anything even remotely resembling that to pass thru congress. It would be defeated before it was even finished being read. They would label it 'socialism' (which IS what it is), and go into full overdrive to defeat it. Look at the Health Care *cough cough* bill in the US. The public option never had a chance, even though that was one of Obama's campaign promises.

[Nintii]

People are only entitled to what there nation's constituition or bill of rights says they can have and secondly, a person is entitled to what they work for ... beyond that is wishful thinking.

[Jopo1980]

The lack of public healthcare is a shame on the US government. Instead you have greedy corporations managing one of the key areas of society and how is that working for you? Thousands upon thousands of Americans are without health care coverage, because they either cannot afford an insurance policy or cannot get one due to illness. For example, how would I get treatment and medications for my epilepsy and other conditions in the US? No insurance company would cover me and even if the gave me a policy, it would omit every pre-existing condition from coverage, leaving me to pay for all the bills myself, which would be impossible even with good income.

 

Besides, have you watched the documentary The Corporation? In it a corporation is evaluated psychologically as a person and found to have the personality of a psychopath. Insurance companies will use every trick available to them to avoid paying the bills of the policy holders as that would mean financial loss. Insurance company doctors are given bonuses per every case they reject. How does that sound for sound health care management? Every one who needs medical treatment should get it regardless of cost.

 

It is true that by American standards even the most capitalistic of Finnish parties can be seen as socialist and that we have a high tax rate, but in return we get free health care, free education, up to and including university level, I pay 100 euros per year of my university studies as a mandatory fee to the student union, everything else is covered by the state which funds the universities, polytechnic schools and all other education. Plus as students we get student allowance to cover our living expenses (rent, food etc.). Student housing and some other forms of housing are subsidized by the state to keep rents down. In fact it is not allowed to be without a home in Finland as anyone living in a sewer would freeze to death during winter, so housing is guaranteed. All in all we have extensive social "safety nets" placed to protect the less fortunate, all paid by taxes and if a high rate of tax is the cost, then I believe many would gladly pay for it to guarantee all the necessary services for all. At least, if I were to have children in the future, I would gladly pay the taxes in order to get them free education and health care.

 

Many other European countries have similar systems and thanks to the Democratic party´s thinking Americans hopefully have similar systems in place in the future. The society is a collective and every member must be looked after. The American philosophy that everyone provides for themselves may be just fine for those well off, but those less fortunate need and want government support. After all, you already have the police, fire department, postal service etc. managed by the government, health care should be one of them, it is too important to be left as a playing ground for corporations whose only mission is to make a profit, not the well being of citizens. Private insurances and health care can work parallel to the state provided public health care, for those who wish it, but it should not be the main method of providing health care.

[greywaste]

we get free health care, free education, up to and including university level, I pay 100 euros per year of my university studies as a mandatory fee to the student union,

 

I hate to break this to you but it's not free (unless of course doctors and nurses are all volunteer workers in Finland??) Someone else is paying the bulk of the bill for you unless you are paying very high taxes yourself, which I doubt, since you're a student.

 

You keep comparing tiddly little social democrat welfare states with the USA too, if you can't see the problem comparing nations with 5 or so million people as opposed to 330 million then I won't bother wasting my breath further.

[marharth]

we get free health care, free education, up to and including university level, I pay 100 euros per year of my university studies as a mandatory fee to the student union,

 

I hate to break this to you but it's not free (unless of course doctors and nurses are all volunteer workers in Finland??) Someone else is paying the bulk of the bill for you unless you are paying very high taxes yourself, which I doubt, since you're a student.

 

You keep comparing tiddly little social democrat welfare states with the USA too, if you can't see the problem comparing nations with 5 or so million people as opposed to 330 million then I won't bother wasting my breath further.

It doesn't matter if other people pay the bill. He has the ability to go to college and get a job, and help other people out later in life.

 

Unlike in America where taxes are low and universities are completely ridiculous. A lot of people can't get into college simply due to the insane costs. Later on they won't be able to get a good job or pay taxes due to this.

 

If you pay taxes to help students get through college they will be able to get a good job and keep the system rolling.