The Death Penalty

[HeyYou]

Yeah, just looking at it statistically, is rather cold.... but, if you take individuals into account, then the whole system falls apart anyway. This is a case where "the greater good" should take precedence.

 

Inmates being productive? Really? And just what would you have violent offenders doing to repay their debt? Not to mention the cost of their incarceration? It costs, on average, about 35,000 dollars a year to maintain ONE inmate. I don't make that much per year...... in fact, I would be surprised if the combined income of the whole household made it that high. A significant percentage of the population of the united states doesn't make that much in a year....... yet we all pay for it. How many of our violent offenders would be able to make that kind of money on the outside? (via a LEGAL job.......) Not to mention all the rights groups whining about forced labor. In michigan, our license plates used to be made by inmates. Not any more. Some rights group screamed bloody murder, so now, inmates just sit on their duffs, and watch cable TV all day.

 

Do you count school bullies in your "mob" scenario?

[SilverDNA]

Yes school bullies count , If a teacher found you guilty in the end when they where lying to get you punished.

 

In my opinion you can make a fortune if you are a manager of a company that has many government orders. ( it can be calculated so the government and the company profit from such workers ... now think up where this leads me to a criminal in jail is able to produce work is able to repay the society and even in my opinion has the right to be rehabilitated if working.

There are national and international laws what a criminal can do as work or not.

Having them watch TV is the worst of all in my humble opinion.

 

I was and always referring to the innocent found guilty of the crime and be punished by the death penalty. This is no general law debate this is about death penalty and the question that has the hardest answer is can you bring a such punished innocent individual back to life for his / her children and raise him / her from the dead? how would the children view this if in the aftermath would come out the one put to death was innocent? Now if the same rules applies now for the trial against the ones that lied who is at accused and who is the accuser ? Was the punishment only an unfortunate mishap? Try to explain this to the children, eye to eye, in such way and be prepared to run just in case they seek justice.

[hoofhearted4]

an innocent being put to death has nothing to do with the death penalty, that is the judicial system itself, and there isnt a country or place in the world where and innocent hasnt been wrongly convicted.

 

what if we got rid of the death penalty all together? would that stop the innocent from being wrongly convicted? if that innocent person, in jail, dies due to gang violence, do we have to get rid of jails too? because he died in jail and he was innocent. i would be willing to bed more innocent ppl die in jails do to violence in the jail then are sent to their deaths.

 

in either scenario, death by capital punishment or death by force, that person didnt have a choice to die in either case. someone still decided his fate. in one case the government decided his fate, in another a person in jail decided his fate, which again is no different then a murder in society choosing the fate of someone else. that innocent person had no choice in the matter to live or die, but the murder does. and now he gets to live in jail, with meals, exercise, and free time, with the possibility for rehabilitation AND a job (or so your saying you want them to) which many americans dont even have. ya lets put our criminals ahead of our country. the ones who had their chance and blew it. lets spend our money on them to make sure they have food, shower, and exercise.

[HeyYou]

I know, lets abolish the death penalty, and then outsource our prisons to mexico, or china....... certainly would be cheaper...... :D

[SilverDNA]

an innocent being put to death has nothing to do with the death penalty, that is the judicial system itself, and there isnt a country or place in the world where and innocent hasnt been wrongly convicted.

 

what if we got rid of the death penalty all together? would that stop the innocent from being wrongly convicted? if that innocent person, in jail, dies due to gang violence, do we have to get rid of jails too? because he died in jail and he was innocent. i would be willing to bed more innocent ppl die in jails do to violence in the jail then are sent to their deaths.

 

in either scenario, death by capital punishment or death by force, that person didnt have a choice to die in either case. someone still decided his fate. in one case the government decided his fate, in another a person in jail decided his fate, which again is no different then a murder in society choosing the fate of someone else. that innocent person had no choice in the matter to live or die, but the murder does. and now he gets to live in jail, with meals, exercise, and free time, with the possibility for rehabilitation AND a job (or so your saying you want them to) which many americans dont even have. ya lets put our criminals ahead of our country. the ones who had their chance and blew it. lets spend our money on them to make sure they have food, shower, and exercise.

You cant rehabilitate a dead person found guilty for a crime he / she didn't committed.

Now the major crux of this topic; If someone values punishment over rehabilitation thats where the death penalty becomes a tool of revenge not a punishment. when ever a government on behalf of the citizens enforces a death penalty on an innocent person it is irreversible revenge instead of justice.

How to rehabilitate a dead person is in a fashion equally to that what is taken from him /her is beyond me.

And if some genius comes to the idea of paying with money in such a case ..

Well how much worth is a life?

Can a life be measured or weighed by money ?

[hoofhearted4]

what is your obsession with rehabilitation? why do you want to rehabilitate a murderer so badly? i bed the families that person murdered dont wan him rehabilitated.

 

the only argument that can be made is we send people to death row too quickly. maybe we do? idk. that is how you get all of your innocents on death row numbers, by how many were released from death row. there are very few cases known where someone already killed was innocent, because once a person is killed, they dont waste money trying to figure out if they were wrong. and if this is your argument, then i cant argue. maybe we do put ppl in that position too fast, but for the ones that deserve to be there, i say good riddance,

Edited September 26, 2011 by hoofhearted4

[Nintii]

 

This topic is more about the legality of it i(the death penalty) in our modern world then the morality of it.

 

If the legality of the death penalty is not based on moral grounds, then what is it based on ?

Edited September 26, 2011 by Nintii

[SilverDNA]

IF somebody can misunderstand you .. They do!

The crux of debate in death penalty isn't justice ... I don't argue justice in general!

The crux is how to rehabilitate someone innocent convinced and put under the justice of the law to death.... Now the all in all question is in justice is the strong here. Now justify a nation that commutes mass murder on innocent people ( i know it has been done before)

how many innocent life under a death penalty must die till a nation becomes a murder it self and who can judge such a nation ? it is a state of self preservance of a nation to put only the guilty to justice and I'm not arguing justice I arguing out that you can't rehabilitate an INNOCENT convicted and put to death person. because im not going the punishing line like i posted soempostes above in one quote you cant rehabillitate an dead person that has been found innocent after it has been put to death by a law system there is no compensation for this! and if the victims and relatives of such a person would then now argue the point out that there must be justice for them too.. then the nation must now judge it self by the same laws it has judged the one that has been innocently put to death by equal means... now where would that lead us too? Now why have the majority of nations put down the death penalty?

[Keanumoreira]

because i know right from wrong and would leave it to the government to capture someone and not go and kill them myself is your defense on why i can be for the death penalty? because i dont believe in the death penalty enough to go kill someone and go through it myself? ur not making logical sense. someone killed my mother, and they cought him, and his sentence was death, and i was allowed to push the button so to say, damn straight i would.

 

on that note, the death penalty is also a scare tactic. if ppl know the consequence is death, they are less likely to perform the action in question.

 

 

 

and as i said. psychopath or not, idrc. the moment you start giving lenience to some over others is when wars break out. im not saying kill ppl BECAUSE they are mental, im saying kill a mental person if he kills someone else. just the same if they arent mental, or if they are black white or green, male or female, old or young.

 

what do u do to a dog when it attacks someone? without hesitation its put down. whether or not it killed someone. but if a human kills someone, we dont do the same. we pity that person because hes confused. sure we feel bad for the victim, but its the killer who is really suffering here, he needs the real help. he only killed as a cry for help, but how can we help him if hes on death row.

 

 

When did I ever say that? I'm not saying the death penalty makes no sense because the government is the one who is carrying it out and not those supporting it. What I'm saying is that it is wrong because there are better ways to handle people's problems. You can continue to go on and say that they deserve what death comes their way, and regardless if that is true or not, anger is a very powerful emotion. If you use anger to solve your problems, then you're going to get the resulting roundabout. I'm not, on the other hand, saying that those who do support it are bad people themselves for just this sole reason. We all have different opinion's, and just because some of them may annoy another person with conflicting views, does not mean they are wrong to have them.

 

Back to my original argument:

 

Actions speak louder than words. This isn't medieval Europe with the ropes and the later invented Guillotine. You can cover it up with "humane" and "euthanization ", but those don't justify the fact that you just killed someone, who, again, could be honest for all you know. You can't teach a dog not to bark. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can have a psychopath in society, but you can't force him to behave. And when these issues arise, when the going gets tough...we usually just seek the easy way out. And it's easy to kill someone rather than put up with them right? Except, in this unique case, we just call that habeas corpus, the only other excuse to get rid of people we choose not to help, where it wouldn't necessarily be "wrong".

 

It's easy to kill an animal because he was only trying to protect himself, and it's easy to overlook someone's limitations and still give them the fullest extent of the law, no matter if they lack the required understanding. Let's see how easy it is to place one of your friend's or family members in this situation, and still stay true to your word. It would be more difficult to extinguish them as monsters since they exist in your Monkeysphere. It would also be more challenging to accept the death penalty if you suddenly found a loved one in that situation, and even if you still stood firm, then what about the possibility of if you didn't? Why would it not apply to those who are outside it? There are contradictions with these things that can't be ignored and must also be factored. People often change their minds when presented with new problems. More commonly when those problems strike a little closer to home then they would like.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Keanumoreira

[HeyYou]

because i know right from wrong and would leave it to the government to capture someone and not go and kill them myself is your defense on why i can be for the death penalty? because i dont believe in the death penalty enough to go kill someone and go through it myself? ur not making logical sense. someone killed my mother, and they cought him, and his sentence was death, and i was allowed to push the button so to say, damn straight i would.

 

on that note, the death penalty is also a scare tactic. if ppl know the consequence is death, they are less likely to perform the action in question.

 

 

 

and as i said. psychopath or not, idrc. the moment you start giving lenience to some over others is when wars break out. im not saying kill ppl BECAUSE they are mental, im saying kill a mental person if he kills someone else. just the same if they arent mental, or if they are black white or green, male or female, old or young.

 

what do u do to a dog when it attacks someone? without hesitation its put down. whether or not it killed someone. but if a human kills someone, we dont do the same. we pity that person because hes confused. sure we feel bad for the victim, but its the killer who is really suffering here, he needs the real help. he only killed as a cry for help, but how can we help him if hes on death row.

 

 

When did I ever say that? I'm not saying the death penalty makes no sense because the government is the one who is carrying it out and not those supporting it. What I'm saying is that it is wrong because there are better ways to handle people's problems. You can continue to go on and say that they deserve what death comes their way, and regardless if that is true or not, anger is a very powerful emotion. If you use anger to solve your problems, then you're going to get the resulting roundabout. I'm not, on the other hand, saying that those who do support it are bad people themselves for just this sole reason. We all have different opinion's, and just because some of them may annoy another person with conflicting views, does not mean they are wrong to have them.

 

Back to my original argument:

 

Actions speak louder than words. This isn't medieval Europe with the ropes and the later invented Guillotine. You can cover it up with "humane" and "euthanization ", but those don't justify the fact that you just killed someone, who, again, could be honest for all you know. You can't teach a dog not to bark. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can have a psychopath in society, but you can't force him to behave. And when these issues arise, when the going gets tough...we usually just seek the easy way out. And it's easy to kill someone rather than put up with them right? Except, in this unique case, we just call that habeas corpus, the only other excuse to get rid of people we choose not to help, where it wouldn't necessarily be "wrong".

 

It's easy to kill an animal because he was only trying to protect himself, and it's easy to overlook someone's limitations and still give them the fullest extent of the law, no matter if they lack the required understanding. Let's see how easy it is to place one of your friend's or family members in this situation, and still stay true to your word. It would be more difficult to extinguish them as monsters since they exist in your Monkeysphere. It would also be more challenging to accept the death penalty if you suddenly found a loved one in that situation, and even if you still stood firm, then what about the possibility of if you didn't? Why would it not apply to those who are outside it? There are contradictions with these things that can't be ignored and must also be factored. People often change their minds when presented with new problems. More commonly when those problems strike a little closer to home then they would like.

 

I don't really care who it is. Mother/father/sister/brother. If they kill someone, then they need to be removed from society, permanently. Be that life in prison, or death penalty. I don't play favorites.

 

I still think outsourcing to mexico or china is a good idea......